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Old 10-16-2016, 11:40 AM   #61
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Rubicon.... got me confused, too. Had to go back to see what I had done. My NEG from inverter does in fact go to the frame as required, and the POS goes to the battery. The inverter also has what the manual is calling a "Chassis Ground." That's what is connected to the WFCO. Why? Have no idea. But it all works.

I had subsequently also opened up the inverter box and tapped into its duplex, and ran new romex wire to a second duplex I installed on the wall underneath the fridge. Did this so the inverter now controls two duplexes.
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Old 10-16-2016, 01:42 PM   #62
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Wait..... sorry, time out! Looks like I mis-labeled connections on that picture.

This revised picture is correct.
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Old 10-16-2016, 02:30 PM   #63
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I had subsequently also opened up the inverter box and tapped into its duplex, and ran new romex wire to a second duplex I installed on the wall underneath the fridge. Did this so the inverter now controls two duplexes.
So, to finish your question about why some installations have a transfer switch, your situation is one that does not require one. Since your inverter output only goes to two dedicated, inverter only outlets and doesn't tie into your main AC panel, you don't need to isolate the two.

Still don't like grounds to the frame as the sole path to the battery, but that's just me.

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Old 10-16-2016, 02:39 PM   #64
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Looking at your last photo, I have a concern on the negative wiring. It looks like the negative 12V connection to the inverter is wired to the converter ground post rather than the battery. If so, the path between the converter & the battery would be the #10 original wiring provided by Escape. Unless you have replaced the #10 wire between the battery & the converter with larger wire, a full load on the inverter will overheat the #10 wire between the converter & battery. Since it is not fused or circuit breakered, this would be a hazard.

It may be that the negative connection of the inverter is internally connected to the inverter's chassis ground post & and the #4 wire you ran between it & the frame would provide a high current parallel path, however chassis connections are prone to corrosion and should not be depended on as a current carrying connection except to protect against faults. If the chassis connection fails, the entire inverter negative current would be through the original wire between the converter & the battery (normally a #10 wire).

The inverter's chassis ground terminal is designed to route a internal fault to ground & should not be used as a current carrying conductor.

It would be better to either add a #4 wire between the inverter ground post & the batteries or, if you want to rely on the chassis as the negative connection, move the #4 wire from the inverter chassis ground to the negative terminal & remove the wire between the inverter negative terminal & the converter ground post. You would still need to add at least a #6 wire between the inverter chassis ground post & the trailer frame.

Again I may have misinterpreted the photo, but I did want to point out a possible problem...
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Old 10-16-2016, 02:49 PM   #65
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My brain might need a transfer switch, though. Can't believe how easily these days electricity escapes my stranded, uncoated circuitry.

I see that, Jon. --Have some AWG2 left over. Going back out to the trailer...

No, can't tell from this pix.

......................Just checked ....its all AWG4 from the inverter
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Old 10-16-2016, 03:26 PM   #66
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The exception is the short cable the connect the two batteries together - that one carries all of the current flowing through the batteries, so it should be increased in gauge if an inverter is installed; I don't know if it is or not.
The 1500 watt inverter I described above came with a pair of three foot two gauge cables. As part of my installation I verified that the cable between the dual six volt batteries was at least that gauge. It was.

That does not mean that yours is, you should always check as Escape has constantly been upgrading wiring methods and materials over the past years.
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Old 10-16-2016, 04:34 PM   #67
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Looking at your last photo, I have a concern on the negative wiring. It looks like the negative 12V connection to the inverter is wired to the converter ground post rather than the battery. If so, the path between the converter & the battery would be the #10 original wiring provided by Escape. Unless you have replaced the #10 wire between the battery & the converter with larger wire, a full load on the inverter will overheat the #10 wire between the converter & battery. Since it is not fused or circuit breakered, this would be a hazard.
I was alarmed by the same issue when as Jon when I saw the photo. Although the protective chassis ground of the inverter's AC side and the negative cable of the inverter's DC side both connect to the trailer's frame (directly or indirectly) they are not the same thing.

This would be a lot simpler if the negative cable of the DC input to the inverter were connected directly to the negative battery terminal, just as the positive cable goes directly to the positive battery terminal, leaving no opportunity for confusion.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:59 PM   #68
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I was alarmed by the same issue when as Jon when I saw the photo. Although the protective chassis ground of the inverter's AC side and the negative cable of the inverter's DC side both connect to the trailer's frame (directly or indirectly) they are not the same thing.

This would be a lot simpler if the negative cable of the DC input to the inverter were connected directly to the negative battery terminal, just as the positive cable goes directly to the positive battery terminal, leaving no opportunity for confusion.
Thanks Brian B-P and Jon. Even with the sidetracking in the thread about wiring types it appears we have identified and can agree that the negative DC side and inverter chassis ground on Myron's install is not correct and could be a potential issue. Just because it is working doesn't mean it is right. I would also add that the AC receptacle that was wired into the inverter should probably be grounded similar to the other trailer outlets or on the chassis ground lug and not on the inverter DC negative post. Please comment if this is not true. I'm glad that Myron has hung on during this critique and provided photos that allowed further clarification on his existing install. I'm hopeful that he is now close to a reliable and safe installation that will give him many years of worry free service.
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:14 PM   #69
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I think I'll just buy a generator
If I don't get an inverter as part of the build and try to install one later I'm sure to screw it up and fry something.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:09 AM   #70
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I think I'll just buy a generator
If I don't get an inverter as part of the build and try to install one later I'm sure to screw it up and fry something.
There are not many cables - just post images and ask about anything in the instructions which doesn't make sense.
  1. positive supply from battery positive to inverter positive input (thick)
  2. negative supply from battery positive to inverter negative input (thick)
  3. make sure existing connection between batteries (if dual 6V) is thick
  4. protective ground from inverter to trailer frame
  5. plug whatever you want to power into the inverter

A transfer switch for the AC power is slick, but you don't need to do that if you just want to use AC power from the inverter's built-in outlet.
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