Wave-3 Catalytic Heater

[Farther]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Does carbon monoxide naturally rise or fall? Propane is heavy, so sits by the floor. Where would carbon monoxide gather, if present?

The the specific gravity of carbon monoxide is slightly less than air but not much. So, that coupled with the CO being in warmer air (product of incomplete combustion) it tends to rise.

Back when I was in the fire service, unvented fuel-fired heaters were not allowed by the Uniform Fire Code or the National Fire Code. And what is meant by unvented is that there was no vent by the heater to the outside of an occupied structure. An open window does not meet the requirements of a vent. In other words, the heater itself needs to be vented to the outside atmosphere, not into the structure.

But safety standards may be different for RVs and my experience in the fire service is 20 years ago. May be now there are code complient unvented fuel-fired heaters. In my opinion, the same precautions still apply. Ask yourself this, if the catalytic heaters are so good, why aren't they routinely installed in homes?

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Farther

Ask yourself this, if the catalytic heaters are so good, why aren't they routinely installed in homes?

Probably because there was a lack of repeat sales.

[75thRanger]

Can 'specific gravity' be equated to 'hang time'? Having livestock around, I have more than a passing familiarity with 'gas' hang time.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Farther

Ask yourself this, if the catalytic heaters are so good, why aren't they routinely installed in homes?

Again, do the research.

• Must be a heater in each room for uniform heat
  
  
• Cost of multiple heaters
  
  
• Each room needs to be properly vented
  
  
• Are not made to be run by a thermostat
  
  
• Heater is turned on manually and should initially be set on high for a few minutes
  
  
• Heater must be turned off manually

Central heat is cheaper, automatic, and more uniform.

_____________________________________

Any of you grow up with an central oil burner for your only heat? When it got cold you manually turned up the heat and when warmer you turned it down. The only room in the house that was warm was where the burner was located. They were inefficient, and had a tendency to fail. CO detectors were not in existence back then. Over time people started using products that made it easy to seal up their drafty homes, so some woke up drowsy and would puke, if they were lucky enough to wake up. We've come a long way baby!

We won't be using the heater in cool weather, when hooked up to electricity, or when we have adequate solar to keep our batteries charged. We'll exclusively use the furnace. This is for when the furnace fails, or when we're camping for days without adequate solar for our batteries.

Before ever sleeping in the camper with the heater we'll set the heater by itself to burn off any residual oil/paint/etc and make sure it works properly.

On our maiden six week voyage the off-gassing was so bad we had to keep the Maxx Fan vent open, and on low, the entire time. Once we got home we left the vent open and the fan running till we left for Arizona later in January. Most of the off-gassing was gone.

Nearly every night in November and December, on our maiden voyage, was below 40, with easily two weeks below 30, and at least four nights below 20, and the furnace (when the sail switch was working) kept us nice and toasty, despite the Maxx vent being open more than needed for a small 1,200-1,800 btu catalytic heater. We'll probably use the passenger side dinette window for the other vent.

The 5.0 is the perfect camper for this application, since the bed is up high where the heat will be concentrated. The colder it is the more the heat is in the ceiling and the floor is cold. It will also be easier to properly place the second CO detector in the small cubic foot bed area.

The Buddy heater does scare me enough to know I'll never sleep with it running, besides we'd roast to death even on low despite the fact a couple of my friends routinely sleep in their home built, massively insulated, luxury fish houses with the Buddy running all night (they do vent).

We're talking about a low (1,200-1,800) btu heater NOT a 4-40,000 btu heater some of you think we're going to use.

Yes, I've done my research.

Enjoy,

Perry

[maiki724]

Perry, just curious. Why a Wave 3 instead of the 6?

[Jim Bennett]

Being an Alberta camper we are used to spending a fair few nights below freezing when camping with our trailer. I have never even come close to losing enough battery power to keep my furnace running now that I have solar, even on cloudy days there is still some charge.

But, if a catalytic heater is more to your liking, then by all means do it. I would definitely do the plug and play scenario. I am just going to stick to what works for me.
Before solar with my 19 I used to go three nights in sub freezing temps (not real bad though) with no charging, I just kept the thermostat low during the night, and kept other electrical uses at bay. Usually it warmed up a good bit during the day to stop tanks from freezing, and we do spend most of our time outside, so the furnace is usually shut off then.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by maiki724

Perry, just curious. Why a Wave 3 instead of the 6?

We have a Buddy that puts out 4,000 btu's on low, and that's too much and gets our camper to 70 in less than 10 minutes. The Wave-6 puts out 3,000 btu's on low and that's still too much heat in the small space of our 5.0.

We're actually considering taking a crap shoot on the Martin Catalytic Heater (Michael K mentioned earlier in this thread) that at 1,500-3,000 btu's, would more meet our needs. We already have four refillable 1lb LP tanks and the size and placement would be better for our needs. I really don't want to drill a hole in our camper and don't want to have our 13# LP tank inside the camper.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Being an Alberta camper we are used to spending a fair few nights below freezing when camping with our trailer. I have never even come close to losing enough battery power to keep my furnace running now that I have solar, even on cloudy days there is still some charge.

But, if a catalytic heater is more to your liking, then by all means do it. I would definitely do the plug and play scenario. I am just going to stick to what works for me.
Before solar with my 19 I used to go three nights in sub freezing temps (not real bad though) with no charging, I just kept the thermostat low during the night, and kept other electrical uses at bay. Usually it warmed up a good bit during the day to stop tanks from freezing, and we do spend most of our time outside, so the furnace is usually shut off then.

We've already had the sail switch crap out on us four times and I don't ever want to clean the switch out at night in 15 degree weather again. We're traveling for 2-4 months at a time now and I want to be prepared for a complete furnace failure. This alone has changed my outlook.

When our brand-new AGM battery failed last winter at Organ Pipe it took us two weeks to realize it was battery failure and then get our battery replaced under warranty. All batteries fail at some point and no battery company is perfect.

We sometimes camp at the same place, without adequate sun for our solar, for 8-12 days at a time. I have a Victron BMV installed and it shows we use between 16-22 amps when in cold weather running the furnace. Yes, we do conserve, but when talking long stays at the same park we want to have the ability to mitigate the furnace fan when needed.

Enjoy,

Perry

[maiki724]

Putting a hole in the camper to run a hose or having a smaller propane tank in the camper is my issue too. That smaller catalytic heater looks interesting. I am probably going to go with the refillable 1lb propane bottles for my Buddy and possible the Martin since it runs longer. Keep us posted....thanks.

[lorrie]

When we went camping in cold weather with no electrical, we used the Buddy Heater. We just set up a propane tank outside and ran a long adapter hose to the Buddy Heater through the window crack that we needed anyway for venting. No holes needed.

[sunrisetrucker]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

I suggest you look up catalytic heaters and venting. A little research can go a long way.

Perry

I don't need to do the research. I have first hand experience. I know I'm repeating myself but, never again.

I know "proper use" of catalytic heaters won't kill you but improper use has. And improper use is all to common. Almost lost a good friend because of it.

As much as I dislike generators, that would be my first choice if long term battery use was needed and solar power was not adequate.

If you're comfortable using one go ahead, just don't invite inside for a cup of coffee when you've got it on.

[steve dunham]

We took a different approach, rather than rely on our unreliable propane furnace , we purchased a 5 lb genuine merino wool blanket . Requires no electricity , no propane , no elaborate electronic detectors , works in all weather and at any elevation .
The color of the wool blanket does not match the decor of our Escape but when your cold , who cares?

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

We took a different approach, rather than rely on our unreliable propane furnace , we purchased a 5 lb genuine merino wool blanket . Requires no electricity , no propane , no elaborate electronic detectors , works in all weather and at any elevation .
The color of the wool blanket does not match the decor of our Escape but when your cold , who cares?

Those are mighty warm Steve ! Pat

[Defenestrator]

I can reassure you a bit on the truck generator - they tend to be diesel, which under most circumstances don't produce much CO. A lot less than a gas generator, at least.

In terms of why catalytic heaters aren't installed in houses - because a condensing furnace gets almost as good of fuel efficiency without any of the risks, at the cost of space and money.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by sunrisetrucker

I don't need to do the research. I have first hand experience. I know I'm repeating myself but, never again.

You don't explain what happened, what equipment was involved, and/or how the equipment was used. The only good reasons I know for any failure are improper use, mainly lack of proper venting, or equipment failure. Research would eliminate the improper use argument, and all products fail at some time.

The nice thing about catalytic heaters is there is no direct flame. My first experience with a catalytic heater was a white gas version in my 63 Volkswagen camper bus. If I was stupid enough to touch the heater nothing would ignite, but would get damn hot. We were also very stupid in those times.

I know "proper use" of catalytic heaters won't kill you but improper use has. And improper use is all to common. Almost lost a good friend because of it.

You admit that "proper use" won't kill us. The heaters I'm looking at purchasing do NOT start automatically. The first item to check before lighting the heater will be proper venting.

We also have a LP gas/fire detector in the camper and intend to purchase a second CO detector, so we'll be redundant with CO detectors. This should cover equipment failure.

I'm sorry about your friends, but if they had done their research, and learned from that research, they would not have had a problem from improper use. People get in trouble from improper use of automobiles, guns, and power tools all the time, yet we still drive, hunt and use table saws or nail guns. If I was scared of every improper use my life would be quite boring.

Readers here need to separate "proper use" from "improper use" in this thread. With proper venting and today's magical detectors we will be covered for failure. I take risks all the time driving, firing my guns, and using my power tools. I see no greater risk here.

As much as I dislike generators, that would be my first choice if long term battery use was needed and solar power was not adequate.

That's fine for your choice, but we don't want, have room for, or need a generator.

If you're comfortable using one go ahead, just don't invite inside for a cup of coffee when you've got it on.

How about if we have that cup of coffee underneath our strong manual awning, in heavy rain, warming next to our portable Bio-Lite Fire Pit.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Perry Butler]

Full disclosure: Even I have been known to improperly use power tools.

Picture of my Finger Nail.

Luckily, the nail missed all bones!

Enjoy,

Perry

[MyronL]

RE: "...We took a different approach..."

OUCH!!
Pendelton blankets...no venting necessary. (But of course, I favor Nancy's quilts.)

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

We also have a LP gas/fire detector in the camper and intend to purchase a second CO detector, so we'll be redundant with CO detectors. This should cover equipment failure.

I meant to say LP gas AND CO/fire detectors.

That damn 120 minute editing window is just too short. Even the Fiberglass forum has at least a six hour editing window.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

We took a different approach, rather than rely on our unreliable propane furnace , we purchased a 5 lb genuine merino wool blanket . Requires no electricity , no propane , no elaborate electronic detectors , works in all weather and at any elevation .
The color of the wool blanket does not match the decor of our Escape but when your cold , who cares?

Hi Steve
I am a Hudson Bay blanket person and if that doesn’t do it I add one or two US Army wool blankets to the top that my dad brought back from the war in 1945. It is somehow psychologically as well as physically comforting to tie my “camping” to that of my father during the Battle of the Ardennes Forest in the winter of 1944. Wool blankets are a great tool and whether plain grey or green or an 8 point Hudson Bay model with its iconic stripes I’ll never be without one if at all possible. Hope you’re having a good Fall and as the Canadians say in Ontario “ getting kitted up for a deer hunt”.
Iowa Dave

[cpaharley2008]

We are a 3 dog night couple...........