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Old 09-08-2019, 12:12 PM   #1
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WFCO leakage current - GFCI trip

Our 30-amp RV outlets at home are GFCI. Our other trailer has used these for years with no issue.

With the Escape, the GFCI trips nearly each day. Searching other RV forums, this appears to an issue with the WFCO-8955 converter/charger. I turned off converter's AC breaker, and the GFCI does not trip.

I see that the the 3-way refrigerator may also be a cause.

Has anyone else experienced this GFCI trip issue with the supply outlet?

73/gus
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:27 PM   #2
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Neither the converter or refrigerator should trip a GFCI. I'd determine which one is causing the problem. If it is the converter, replacement (probably under warrantee) is probably the solution for an intermittent problem. If it was miss wired, it would trip every tine it was connected.

As to the refrigerator, while unusual for a new one, a fault in the 120V heater element could cause the problem. Try unplugging the refrigerator to test. Just shutting it off won't eliminate it as the problem.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:53 PM   #3
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Do you have the Progressive Industries EMS installed and does it display no errors? I'm not sure I have ever seen a 30 amp GFCI hook up.
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:30 PM   #4
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Gfi tripping

Quote:
Originally Posted by gklott View Post
Our 30-amp RV outlets at home are GFCI. Our other trailer has used these for years with no issue.

With the Escape, the GFCI trips nearly each day. Searching other RV forums, this appears to an issue with the WFCO-8955 converter/charger. I turned off converter's AC breaker, and the GFCI does not trip.

I see that the the 3-way refrigerator may also be a cause.

Has anyone else experienced this GFCI trip issue with the supply outlet?

73/gus
I Had a Casita doing the same thing, turned out to be the hot water heater electric heating element was bad causing a ground fault, did it even with breaker off, try using a 110 outlet without GFI and see if it will stay on
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Do you have the Progressive Industries EMS installed and does it display no errors? I'm not sure I have ever seen a 30 amp GFCI hook up.
I don't know if it is all of them, but the last two Missouri State Parks I stayed in had 30 amp GFCIs. I didn't check the 50 amp receptacles...
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:59 PM   #6
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I have had problems with the GFCI tripping. The problem hasn't been consistent and, though I have tried a few things, I really don't know the cause and don't feel it has been resolved. It is our second season with the trailer and we didn't have this problem last year, and we aren't able to use the trailer very often so I have few observations to go on.

I pulled the trailer out of winter storage and after cleaning it up plugged it into shore power to test the refrigerator and get ready for our first outing. [We've not had much luck with refrigerators in this trailer and I wanted to make sure that it would get cold on 110/120v.] I waited for the EMS to click over, which it did, and then turned the fridge on AC. Everything seemed to be working normally and I left it to cool all night. I use a 15A/30A adapter and plug directly into my house.

When I checked on it in the morning I found that the house GFCI outlet had tripped and the fridge was warm . I unplugged the trailer, reset the outlet, plugged back in and waited for the EMS to click over, which it did, but as soon as it clicked over the GFCI tripped.

At first, I thought the problem was with the EMS. In troubleshooting the EMS, I concluded that the problem was in the refrigerator circuit because after turning off all the breakers, powering up the EMS, and then activating circuits one by one I found that every time I turned the refrigerator circuit on the EMS would click off and the GFCI would trip.

Not knowing what else to do, I left the trailer plugged in to the same GFCI outlet overnight (with the refrigerator circuit off) and in the morning everything was fine. I then unplugged the refrigerator from its dedicated outlet and turned the circuit breaker on and still everything was fine. I then plugged in the fridge expecting the GFCI to trip but it didn't and the refrigerator continued to run. All I did was to plug and unplug the unit and wiggle the two heating elements in the flue. (I have the 3-way fridge.) The problem seems to have self-corrected.

While working to sort this out I had sent an email to ETI and got a reply from Dave who suggested I try turning off the battery disconnect switch before plugging in the trailer. He thought since the trailer was in storage that the batteries were low and converter was drawing amps to charge them. After it had been plugged in for a while the batteries had sufficient charge and the converter wasn't drawing as many amps. That could have been the problem, I don't know.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:11 PM   #7
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The number of amps going through the converter should have nothing to do with a GFCI tripping - too many, and the circuit breaker would trip (this is assuming that you have a GFCI receptacle, not a GFCI breaker).

A note for those trying to "prove" the refrigerator (or water heater) is causing a GFCI trip. Always unplug the refrigerator or disconnect both leads to the water heater rather than turning off the breaker. A fault in the heating element can be on the hot or neutral side of the element. If it is on the hot side, turning off the breaker will work, but if it is on the neutral side a modern GFCI will trip with the breaker on or off (detecting a neutral/ground fault). Since the breaker does not disconnect the neutral or ground, shutting off the breaker won't stop the trip.

Older GFCIs only detect a hot/ground fault, but the new ones detect both hot/ground & neutral/ground faults.
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:13 PM   #8
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GFCI RV outlets at home will be required by 2020 NEC

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Do you have the Progressive Industries EMS installed and does it display no errors?
Yes, and shows E0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
too many, and the circuit breaker would trip (this is assuming that you have a GFCI receptacle, not a GFCI breaker).
Trailer supply breaker is an Eaton CHFGFT130 Plug-In Mount Type CH Ground Fault Circuit Breaker 1-Pole 30 Amp 120 Volt AC.

Have two of these breakers in our pole barn sub-panel, each connected to an Eaton CHU4S 30A RV Power Outlet Panel. The same sub-panel has an Eaton CH250GF 50A 2-pole GFCI breaker for the Eaton CHU1S 50A RV outlet, and an Eaton CHFGFT120 for the standard convenience outlet.

These have always worked well - until we got the Escape home. Thinking we may have a faulty WFCO main board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
A note for those trying to "prove" the refrigerator (or water heater) is causing a GFCI trip. Always unplug the refrigerator or disconnect both leads to the water heater rather than turning off the breaker.
Has been running so far today without faulting. Will do as you recommend if it trips again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
Older GFCIs only detect a hot/ground fault, but the new ones detect both hot/ground & neutral/ground faults.
These breakers are about 3-years old and are the current Eaton models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I'm not sure I have ever seen a 30 amp GFCI hook up.
With the just to be released 2020 NEC, all new 30A and 50A RV outlets at your residence must be GFCI type. "All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A) (1) through (11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel.

The RV Park industry fought to keep this requirement out of Article 551. The NEC panel indicated that "RV hot skins" are an increasing problem as RV park equipment ages. The panel reviewed several RV deaths resulting from hot skins, and the 2023 NEC will likely require GFCI for all RV Parks and for farm outlets. The marine industry went through this with many deaths of swimmers near boats. All marine shore power outlets must now be ELCI/GFCI type.

73/gus
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:40 PM   #9
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gklott: Just curious...

Was your trailer wet when the GFCI tripped?

One idea I am working is that the two times mine tripped the GFCI I had just washed it after pulling it from storage, and then I plugged it in to get it ready. I am now wondering if water could have gotten in somewhere and that is what is causing my intermittent problem. I plan to test this next time by plugging the trailer in first and washing later.

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Old 09-08-2019, 07:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Travelers View Post
Was your trailer wet when the GFCI tripped?
Good thought, but trailer is in our pole barn, with a hot, dry end of Summer.

Solved the water trip issue in our other trailer by replacing the cheap RV outlet with a shallow box and a WR-type industrial grade duplex receptacle.

73/gus
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:50 PM   #11
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Thanks, water is clearly not what caused yours to trip. We won't be taking our trailer out again until late October. Will see what happens when I plug it in then.

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