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10-21-2015, 10:07 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonW
And my 2015 Highlander manual says that trailers weighing 5000 lbs or less do not need a WDH. I have always thought that is kind of strange, because it seemed to me that tongue weight would also figure into the equation.
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Toyota, like other manufacturers, recommends 10% tongue weight; as a result, a limitation of 500 pounds of tongue weight without WD implies a limitation of 5000 pounds of trailer weight.
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10-23-2015, 01:51 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Trailer: 2015 19 foot
Posts: 439
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I wonder if a "weight distribution hitch" really distributes weight. I have used one for many years so I believe in its goodness for leveling the TV and trailer, and for adding control to the rig. But I don't see how adding spring bars that level the rig actually distribute any weight to other axles. I recently stopped on my last trip and had my rig weighed. Here is the result: steering axle: 2560 lbs, drive axle: 3120 lbs, trailer: 3400 lbs. My tow vehicle is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the specs say that the weight is distributed 52/48% front to rear. The trailer is an Escape 19, which has a dry weight of 3000 lbs. My tongue weight is about 400 lbs, and the WDH adds about 100 more lbs. Doing the math, the drive axle should be about 2363 lbs without the trailer. (My wife didn't want me to spend any more time weighing, but next time, I would like to unhitch the trailer and reweigh the Jeep to confirm my math.) That means that the extra (tongue?) weight would be about 757 lbs. The Jeep gas tank was full, and I don't know how it is distributed front to rear so that could account for some of the weight. And I was in the car. The total front and rear weight was 5680 lbs which is well under the GVWR of 6500 lbs.
What I don't see is any evidence that any weight was actually distributed from the drive axle to any other axles. What am I missing? Or am I right that no weight is actually distributed as my engineering mind is telling me?
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10-23-2015, 02:13 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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etrailer.com is a great place to find RV answers.
In this video at 4:51 is answer to question "how WDH works"
https://www.etrailer.com/tv-weight_d...ution_faq.aspx
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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10-23-2015, 03:51 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 2013 19' & 2013 15B
Posts: 2,634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdornbush
I wonder if a "weight distribution hitch" really distributes weight. I have used one for many years so I believe in its goodness for leveling the TV and trailer, and for adding control to the rig. But I don't see how adding spring bars that level the rig actually distribute any weight to other axles. I recently stopped on my last trip and had my rig weighed. Here is the result: steering axle: 2560 lbs, drive axle: 3120 lbs, trailer: 3400 lbs. My tow vehicle is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the specs say that the weight is distributed 52/48% front to rear. The trailer is an Escape 19, which has a dry weight of 3000 lbs. My tongue weight is about 400 lbs, and the WDH adds about 100 more lbs. Doing the math, the drive axle should be about 2363 lbs without the trailer. (My wife didn't want me to spend any more time weighing, but next time, I would like to unhitch the trailer and reweigh the Jeep to confirm my math.) That means that the extra (tongue?) weight would be about 757 lbs. The Jeep gas tank was full, and I don't know how it is distributed front to rear so that could account for some of the weight. And I was in the car. The total front and rear weight was 5680 lbs which is well under the GVWR of 6500 lbs.
What I don't see is any evidence that any weight was actually distributed from the drive axle to any other axles. What am I missing? Or am I right that no weight is actually distributed as my engineering mind is telling me?
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You are overthinking things and considering too much non-relevant information. Firstly, when your tow and trailer are connected and the WDH properly hooked up, the spring bar type of WDH does work to redistribute weight from the hitch to the front wheels of the tow and also back to the trailer wheels. Calculating how this is done is a relatively straight forward process using statics (but I will not go through it here).
To see how it works in practice, connect your tow and trailer but do not use the WD spring bars, and then weigh each of the axles of your tow and trailer. Then, hook up the WD spring bars and re-weigh each of the axles. If your WDH was connected correctly, you will see an increase in front axle weight and trailer axle weight and a decrease in the rear axle weight of your tow vehicle.
__________________
2013 19' \ 2013 15B, 2020 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." - 1907, Maurice Switzer
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10-23-2015, 10:17 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdornbush
What I don't see is any evidence that any weight was actually distributed from the drive axle to any other axles. What am I missing?
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Yes, a "weight distribution" system really does force the tug's front axle and the trailer's axle(s) to carry more load, and the tug's rear axle to carry less. The constraint is that the effective location of the net force must stay in the same place, and that determines the split between the tug's front axle and the trailer's axle. This has been demonstrated many times by people running their rig over a scale with and without WD.
I don't know how the math was done with the provided numbers, because they are not complete - perhaps some data just wasn't mentioned in the post. The total of trailer and tug is 2560 + 3120 + 3400 = 9080 pounds; however, we have no way to know, without weighing the tug and/or trailer separately, how much of that is tug and how much is trailer... so there is no way to know what the tug's rear axle would carry without the trailer, or with the trailer and without the WD hitch.
If you want to get further into this, start another thread and I'll respond with more detail. I already have some written, but it probably doesn't belong in this thread.
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03-20-2016, 09:44 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ponoka, Alberta
Trailer: 2016 19 classic "outta sight", jeep rubicon unlimited
Posts: 1,645
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Back to 17 versus 19. Can someone tell me if the size of the bathroom in the 19 and the 17B is the same, or is the 17B's bathroom smaller?
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03-20-2016, 09:49 AM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Trailer: 2015 19 foot
Posts: 439
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The bathroom in the 17b is smaller. When we were looking, I found I could not stand up in the 17b while I could in the 19. We bought a 19.
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03-20-2016, 09:53 AM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ponoka, Alberta
Trailer: 2016 19 classic "outta sight", jeep rubicon unlimited
Posts: 1,645
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Found the specs, and it says the 17B bathroom is 3" narrower. I was wondering why they made the bathroom in the 19 wider. That 3" might be a huge difference for getting into the dinette. Anybody out there that put a narrower bathroom in the 19 then the standard?
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03-20-2016, 09:55 AM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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You have no choice of bath size, as they a moulded to fit each particular model.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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03-20-2016, 09:58 AM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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If you are concerned about bath size, the Escape 21 has the largest of all the models offered.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-20-2016, 10:05 AM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
You have no choice of bath size, as they a moulded to fit each particular model.
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Though the 19 and 5.0 share the same one, I believe.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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03-20-2016, 10:10 AM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Yes, both of them are identical.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-20-2016, 10:10 AM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ponoka, Alberta
Trailer: 2016 19 classic "outta sight", jeep rubicon unlimited
Posts: 1,645
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Actually interested in going smaller bathroom wise. Don't need a big place where we spend the least time, rather have easy access to the d.s. bench. Never thought of this till I compared the layouts of the different trailers (being bored waiting for the big reveal) and discovered that the bathroom wall of the 17 nicely lines up with the dinette while the 19 doesn't.
Too bad it's not an option
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03-20-2016, 10:12 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Perhaps it is because of the sink in the larger models? Plus the 19 is wider...
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-20-2016, 11:29 AM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Seventy Degrees"
Posts: 3,495
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Having had both a 17b and now a 19, one of the first things I noticed was how much difference the larger bath in the 19 made. While it doesn't seem like a lot when you look at the dimensions, it's a big difference when I use it.
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03-20-2016, 11:47 AM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marry
Actually interested in going smaller bathroom wise. Don't need a big place where we spend the least time, rather have easy access to the d.s. bench. Never thought of this till I compared the layouts of the different trailers (being bored waiting for the big reveal) and discovered that the bathroom wall of the 17 nicely lines up with the dinette while the 19 doesn't.
Too bad it's not an option
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Well I've used my bathroom hundreds of times and the term "big place" has never crossed my mind. My wife uses the d.s. bench as her eating spot and lounging area and I doubt the fact that the bathroom wall doesn't line up with the dinette has ever crossed her mind.
We originally were going to buy a 17 but seeing the larger table in the 19 changed that.
Ron
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03-20-2016, 02:01 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marry
Found the specs, and it says the 17B bathroom is 3" narrower. I was wondering why they made the bathroom in the 19 wider. That 3" might be a huge difference for getting into the dinette.
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The 19' is very similar in layout to the 17' (although the 19' is normally built with rear space as a permanent bed, which doesn't change other parts of the interior), just a bit bigger in both length (a couple of feet) and width (an extra 10 cm or 4"). Some of the extra space is used for a larger bathroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marry
Anybody out there that put a narrower bathroom in the 19 then the standard?
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As already mentioned, the bathrooms are all moulded fiberglass shells (so they work as a shower stall), and there is no choice in the bathroom for a given model.
I have not yet heard of an owner modifying a bathroom shell. It would be difficult, if only because there is no room to work. The bathroom shell (in two pieces) is placed inside the lower trailer shell section before it is bonded to the upper section, because the bathroom parts are too large to get in through the doorway. To rework a bathroom shell substantially would at the very least mean removing lots of interior cabinetry, then doing all the fiberglass work inside the trailer.
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03-20-2016, 02:51 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ponoka, Alberta
Trailer: 2016 19 classic "outta sight", jeep rubicon unlimited
Posts: 1,645
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Yeah, it probably won't work, not even for a new build. As the heights are different as well.
Guess I have to go for the "big" pottie.
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03-21-2016, 12:36 PM
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#59
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Milton, Delaware
Trailer: None yet
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikcampbell
I emailed Toyota about using a WDH on a 2015 4Runner. I will let you know what they say when they get back to me.
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Erik,
If you call Toyota directly, AND get past the call center reps, speak to a technical specialist. They are great in providing or interpreting the weights and what can or cannot be installed. I have a '14 4Runner and was told no WDH needed to tow up to my capacity of 5000 lbs.
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03-21-2016, 02:30 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
Though the 19 and 5.0 share the same one, I believe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
Yes, both of them are identical.
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I can see the 19' and 5.0TA having the same footprint (so it would look the same on a floorplan), but doesn't the bathroom go to the ceiling? The 5.0TA has a different (sloped, taller) roofline from every other model.
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