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Old 10-16-2015, 11:30 PM   #1
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17a vs 17b or 19?

Hi everyone.
New member. Did the research years ago and wanted an Escape but the wife wasn't ready...now she is...and go figure...Escapes still rock!

We like the idea of having the biggest bed we can for 2 people so leaning toward a 17a or 19 if we can find one used in BC or Alberta this year.

2 questions:
1) is there sense that the 17Bs hold their values any better than the 17a because they b's have a toilet/shower?
2) does anyone feel strongly that if they were using an older SUV (well kept 2004 Nissan Pathfinder, v6, with an original max 5000lbs towing) that they would advise against towing a 19 with such a vehicle Cost aside, I'm leaning towards a shorter/lighter escape...but the 19 foot escape has that nice bed size we like so trying to figure out which unit we should really go after.

Apologies if this is a familiar question that's been answered!

Gracias,
James
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Old 10-17-2015, 12:26 AM   #2
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If I were doing it again ( keeping in mind that there was no 19' when we got our 17' ), I would get a 19' and a tow vehicle capable of 5,000 lbs.
My buddy towed his 19' with a Hyundai Santa Fe ( 3,500 lb capacity ), but has replaced the vehicle with a Toyota Highlander.
We gather in his 19' for dinners and for cards at the four-seat dinette. Wife appreciates the extra 4" width for passing one another in the kitchen area.
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:50 AM   #3
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Welcome James. I'm biased and I freely admit it. Love the 19. Came within a couple months of having a 17 but changed our mind before the build started. As for towing it with a Pathfinder, you won't have the very best towing experience, but the vehicle is very capable of towing a 19.

Let the trailer be your deciding factor - not the tow. Many have said it here many times, but I'll say it again: tow vehicles change often - trailers, not so much. Get a trailer you'll be happy with in the long term.
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Old 10-17-2015, 12:25 PM   #4
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James:
We got our 17B in mid-Aug. We just got back from a 3 week trip to New Mexico and Colorado. Love the 17b and are very happy with it. Our tv is a 2008 Toyota 4Runner V6. While the 19 would have been within its tow limits (5,000 lb.), we would have probably had to use a WDH. I did not really want to do this, as it would have required replacing the factory receiver hitch. A major concern for us was the size of the bed (49" x 77"). After some 44 nights sleeping in it, the size is not an issue (although we are relatively small people). The 17B tows very well with the 4Runner, and coming from a backpacking/camping background, the trailer is absolute luxury! We really enjoy the convenience of the bathroom, while we've only used the shower a few times, not having to go out to the campground restroom in the middle of the night is great! Our son was able to join us for 3 nights, and the front dinette/bed worked fine for him. Good luck with your decision, but which ever Escape you chose, you"ll be very happy with the quality!
Dave
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith View Post
James:
We got our 17B in mid-Aug. We just got back from a 3 week trip to New Mexico and Colorado. Love the 17b and are very happy with it. Our tv is a 2008 Toyota 4Runner V6. While the 19 would have been within its tow limits (5,000 lb.), we would have probably had to use a WDH. I did not really want to do this, as it would have required replacing the factory receiver hitch. A major concern for us was the size of the bed (49" x 77"). After some 44 nights sleeping in it, the size is not an issue (although we are relatively small people). The 17B tows very well with the 4Runner, and coming from a backpacking/camping background, the trailer is absolute luxury! We really enjoy the convenience of the bathroom, while we've only used the shower a few times, not having to go out to the campground restroom in the middle of the night is great! Our son was able to join us for 3 nights, and the front dinette/bed worked fine for him. Good luck with your decision, but which ever Escape you chose, you"ll be very happy with the quality!
Dave
Why would you have to replace the hitch in order to use a WDH? I ask because I have a 2015 4Runner and I'm getting a WDH and I've seen this issue come up about the hitch.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:31 PM   #6
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Erik:
Toyota is very specific in their owner's manual (also verified by several hitch shops) that the factory receiver hitch on the V6 is not suitable for use with WDHs. This is apparently due to the way it attaches to the frame. The factory installed receiver hitch for the V8 4Runners attaches to the frame at more points and does not have this limitation. Thus, we would have had to replace the factory receiver hitch to use a WDH--as several forum members have done.
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith View Post
Erik:
Toyota is very specific in their owner's manual (also verified by several hitch shops) that the factory receiver hitch on the V6 is not suitable for use with WDHs. This is apparently due to the way it attaches to the frame. The factory installed receiver hitch for the V8 4Runners attaches to the frame at more points and does not have this limitation. Thus, we would have had to replace the factory receiver hitch to use a WDH--as several forum members have done.
Dave
I've never heard of this before. I've got a 2013 Tacoma and my manual doesn't say anything at all about not using a WDH with the factory tow package. Is this something unique to the older V6 models or 4 runners or ??
I've had no issue at all towing my 17B with the Tacoma but to the original poster I would caution against using the older Pathfinder with a 19' trailer if they are planning on going up and down the Coquihalla on a regular basis. With my Tacoma I can barely hold 70Kph going up the snow shed hill and that's with a newer truck and only a 17B. It will do it, but it won't be any fun.
I do agree with others though in that you should buy the trailer that suits your needs and worry about the tow vehcile afterwards as tow vehicles will always change, but you'll probably keep the Escape a long time.

Cheers
Al
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by allan3089 View Post
I've never heard of this before. I've got a 2013 Tacoma and my manual doesn't say anything at all about not using a WDH with the factory tow package. Is this something unique to the older V6 models or 4 runners or ??
Although there may be some parts shared between a Tacoma and a 4Runner, the rear structure (and suspension) and thus the hitch are completely unrelated. The 4Runner's WDH restriction is irrelevant to the Tacoma.
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:29 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by allan3089 View Post
... With my Tacoma I can barely hold 70Kph going up the snow shed hill and that's with a newer truck and only a 17B. It will do it, but it won't be any fun.
I used to go up the Coq. heading up to and through the snow shed hill at 80K in my 2010 Ford Ranger 4X4 with tow package. Now, in my 2015 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 with tow package I breeze through the snow shed. Did Toyota Tacoma increase horse power in 2015? I've heard that Toyota Tacoma's 2016 has a smaller engine with increased horse power.
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
I used to go up the Coq. heading up to and through the snow shed hill at 80K in my 2010 Ford Ranger 4X4 with tow package. Now, in my 2015 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 with tow package I breeze through the snow shed. Did Toyota Tacoma increase horse power in 2015? I've heard that Toyota Tacoma's 2016 has a smaller engine with increased horse power.
I think it is only on the 2016 that HP has changed. My 2008 and your 2015 probably share almost identical V6s. (And I am quite happy with its towing ability, but then I don't mind slowing down a bit climbing up mountain passes)
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Old 10-17-2015, 03:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by allan3089 View Post
With my Tacoma I can barely hold 70Kph going up the snow shed hill and that's with a newer truck and only a 17B
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
.. in my 2015 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 with tow package I breeze through the snow shed.
I have read disparate reports of performance with the same tug and comparable trailers before; the difference may be as simple as using different gears and thus running at different engine speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
Did Toyota Tacoma increase horse power in 2015? I've heard that Toyota Tacoma's 2016 has a smaller engine with increased horse power.
It would be unlikely that the last year of a model generation, using the same engine as used for several years, would get a power increase... and it didn't in this case.

Details of the 2016 Tacoma V6 engine were strangely sparse until the trucks actually made it to showrooms, other than the change in displacement from 4.0L to 3.5L, but it appears to be a later and more sophisticated version of the same GR-series engine family. The new one has significantly more power, but needs to rev faster to put out its maximum.

2005-2015
  • 1GR-FE
  • 236 hp (176 kW) @ 5200 rpm
  • 266 lb·ft (361 N·m) of torque @ 4000 rpm
2016-
  • 2GR-FKS
  • 278 hp (207 kW) @ 6,000 rpm
  • 265 lb·ft (360 N·m) of torque@ 4,600 rpm
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Old 10-17-2015, 03:38 PM   #12
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What a great forum...all very helpful comments. Thanks! Particularly helpful was hearing the opinion that the trailer choice should come before the towing vehicle. Makes sense; given we've tended to hold onto our vehicles longer, and liked smaller 4 wheel drive vehicles for day-to-day use, we had not really been thinking about benefits/need to get a larger/longer towing vehicle. Now we may need to rethink that if the 19' Escape is what we end up wanting. Good to know that others feel our 2004 Pathfinder would be 'ok' (but not ideal) so we could get away with that vehicle for a couple of years if we had to...assuming we can find a 19...or any Escape for that matter given how popular they are!!
cheers,
James
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikcampbell View Post
Why would you have to replace the hitch in order to use a WDH? I ask because I have a 2015 4Runner and I'm getting a WDH and I've seen this issue come up about the hitch.
I have a 2012 4Runner and the Owners Manual states,

"If using a weight distributing hitch when towing, return the front
axle to the same weight as before the trailer connection.
If front axle weight cannot be measured directly, measure the
front fender height above the front axle before connection.
Adjust weight distributing hitch torque until front fender is
returned to the same height as before connection."
.

Check your Owners Manual for the 2015.
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:59 PM   #14
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On my RAV4, which may not be relevant, the Toyota factory hitch receiver is a Class II and not suitable for using with WDH. The dealer had to bring in a guy to install a Class III hitch receiver ( or they wouldn't have sold the vehicle ).
So, my question would be, what class hitch receiver is on your vehicle?
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by allan3089 View Post
With my Tacoma I can barely hold 70Kph going up the snow shed hill and that's with a newer truck and only a 17B.Al
Is this primarily by choice? I ask this as I generally drop down to about 70k as well up the Coq. I don't much like getting too far above 2200-2500 rpm unless I have to with my Ecoboost F-150 as it just guzzles the fuel.
I tend to let my speed drop on the longer, steeper climbs as it simply isn't worth it for me with the fuel consumption.
The truck is very capable and I can easily maintain the speed limit towing our 19' up the Coq however, the trade-off is high fuel use.
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by lancenadine View Post
Is this primarily by choice? I ask this as I generally drop down to about 70k as well up the Coq. I don't much like getting too far above 2200-2500 rpm unless I have to with my Ecoboost F-150 as it just guzzles the fuel.
I tend to let my speed drop on the longer, steeper climbs as it simply isn't worth it for me with the fuel consumption.
The truck is very capable and I can easily maintain the speed limit towing our 19' up the Coq however, the trade-off is high fuel use.
No, not by choice but by necessity. I have been able to make it a tad faster, but if I have to slow down even for a second I just can't get the speed back up. My tow weight is around 3400 lbs. It's not a big deal for me either, but I didn't think it would struggle this much through that section. I absolutely love the truck but wish it had a bit more power for the hills, and really wish it was more fuel efficient. Fuel economy towing though isn't bad, just wish it was better when empty. Can't have it all I guess, so I'm not really complaining.
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Old 10-17-2015, 06:55 PM   #17
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With my RAV4 V6 I've always maintained at least 80 kph up the Coquihalla, past the snow shed. I'm in fourth gear and I just stomp on the gas peddle as required. Of course I never leave Hope without a full tank of gas.
One time I manually geared down to third and did about 90 kph until the transmission warning light came on.
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Old 10-17-2015, 07:16 PM   #18
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The owner's manual caution against using a wdh on a v6 4runner pertained to 03-09 models. The v8's from those years had a hitch with tubular arms that extend to the side rails of the frame. The v6 has a small receiver bolted to the rear frame. Upgrading the v6 is easy as the frame is already drilled and tapped for the larger hitch. $200. The upgrade raises towing capacity to 6200/600 and allows using a wdh.

2010 models and on come only with v6 option, the small receiver, and the 5000/500 limit. Also, they are not factory ready for the larger hitch, nor are larger hitches available through places like etrailer.

The unknown is whether the caution against using a wdh applies to 2010 and newer vehicles since it is not mentioned in the manual.
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Old 10-17-2015, 07:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by OneOleMan View Post
I have a 2012 4Runner and the Owners Manual states,

"If using a weight distributing hitch when towing, return the front
axle to the same weight as before the trailer connection.
If front axle weight cannot be measured directly, measure the
front fender height above the front axle before connection.
Adjust weight distributing hitch torque until front fender is
returned to the same height as before connection."
.

Check your Owners Manual for the 2015.
That's how to use a WDH, if using one. That doesn't say if use of a WDH is allowed in all configurations - the rest of the towing section of the manual would need to be read to find that. If it doesn't say not to use one, then apparently it's allowed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
So, my question would be, what class hitch receiver is on your vehicle?
Perhaps interesting, but the hitch class does not determine the use of WDH. WD systems are only available in 2" and larger, so you can't find one to use with a 1.25" receiver; however, not all 2" receivers are suitable for WD use, even if they are rated Class 3. Class 3 - as defined by SAE J684 and the very old VESC V-5 standard - simply means a trailer weight capacity over 3500 pounds and up to 5000 pounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viajante View Post
The owner's manual caution against using a wdh on a v6 4runner pertained to 03-09 models. The v8's from those years had a hitch with tubular arms that extend to the side rails of the frame. The v6 has a small receiver bolted to the rear frame. Upgrading the v6 is easy as the frame is already drilled and tapped for the larger hitch. $200. The upgrade raises towing capacity to 6200/600 and allows using a wdh.
Good info!
That matches what I learned from earlier discussion of this issue and looking at available hitches, but adds the relevant model year range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viajante View Post
2010 models and on come only with v6 option, the small receiver, and the 5000/500 limit. Also, they are not factory ready for the larger hitch, nor are larger hitches available through places like etrailer.
I noticed that the current (2015 when I looked at it) 4Runner has a slightly different frame which would not fit the aftermarket hitches which I saw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viajante View Post
The unknown is whether the caution against using a wdh applies to 2010 and newer vehicles since it is not mentioned in the manual.
I would say that if it not mentioned in the manual, then it does not apply. The frame design has changed, and apparently the suitability of WDH use has as well.
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Old 10-17-2015, 08:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Perhaps interesting, but the hitch class does not determine the use of WDH. WD systems are only available in 2" and larger, so you can't find one to use with a 1.25" receiver; however, not all 2" receivers are suitable for WD use, even if they are rated Class 3. Class 3 - as defined by SAE J684 and the very old VESC V-5 standard - simply means a trailer weight capacity over 3500 pounds and up to 5000 pounds.
I'm still trying to follow your statement above. What I said is, that on my Toyota RAV4 V6, the Toyota factory hitch receiver would have been a Class II, which is not suitable for a WDH.
I gather that for WDH one would need a Class III at least. So I had the dealer install a Class III, which is suitable for WDH.
The key to my stipulation to the dealer was that it be suitable for WDH.
I would look for the sticker on the hitch receiver to determine if it is suitable.
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