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Old 07-12-2015, 07:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fudge_brownie View Post
The way I read the numbers is you have 5,150 lbs to play with. I take the GCWR less the curb weight of the vehicle. If you added a Escape 19 to your FJ Cruiser with its 358 lb tongue weight you have 1,465 lbs for passengers, fuel and gear. An Escape 21 leaves 1,245 lbs for your use.
I agree with the approach.

Another way to look at the numbers is that with 5,150 pounds to play with...
  • If an Escape 19' with its base weight of 2610 pounds is added to the FJ Cruiser, there is 2,540 pounds left for passenger, gear (in either tug or trailer), fluids in the trailer, and options.
  • If an Escape 21' with its base weight of 3050 pounds is added to the FJ Cruiser, there is 2,100 pounds left for passenger, gear (in either tug or trailer), fluids in the trailer, and options.

From the table, those users added an average of 1,085 pounds to the 19', and 1,290 pounds to the 21'. If you know whether you are tending to basic or maxed-out equipment, and know how much stuff you plan to carry, you can guess where you would be in the that range.

The most conservative approach and assume about 1,400 pounds of stuff by using the trailer GVWR (4,000 lb for 19', 4500 lb for 21'), which is the heaviest that you are allowed to load these trailers.

This is just the limitation of the GCWR. As Paul explained, you also need to separately consider just the tongue weight of the trailer combined with other stuff in the tug and the tug itself, to not exceed the GVWR.
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Old 07-12-2015, 07:31 PM   #22
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You are correct Brian, the curb weight does include fuel. Brian posses another way of calculating the GVWR, there are probably others. An observation I would have is you, with four travelers, will probably be above average in weight. Both inside the vehicle and the amount of gear and food carried in the trailer. The typical trailer that was weighed by Frederick the Scaleman was probably only outfitted for two people.
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:21 PM   #23
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A Life Story. Oh and Some New Buyer Questions Too!!

So true. And, I'm always amazed at manufacturers who refuse to publish a hard GCWR. To me that's the most important number, and the one that's the most ignored. You can calculate it other ways, but I would much prefer a manufacturers number.
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Old 07-12-2015, 08:51 PM   #24
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The weight of a 19' is about 3000 lbs. with many of the options and the weight of a 21' is about 3600 lbs. with many of the options --- before anything is put in by the owner.
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Old 07-12-2015, 09:44 PM   #25
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The weight of a 19' is about 3000 lbs. with many of the options and the weight of a 21' is about 3600 lbs. with many of the options --- before anything is put in by the owner.
The dry weight of my 19 on the placard provided by Escape is 3170 lbs. On a scale, dry, its slightly heavier - 3210.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:04 PM   #26
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The dry weight of my 19 on the placard provided by Escape is 3170 lbs. On a scale, dry, its slightly heavier - 3210.
What I am pointing out is that it is not the 2510 that used to be given for the 19' dry weight or the 2610 that is now given. Anyone's options likely add at least 500 lbs. --- in your case, even more. People tend to use the dry weight they see on the specs and then have no idea what the loaded weight would be because they do not account for the options.

The dry weight given for a 21' is 3050 lbs. but the dry weight given for ours is closer to 3600 lbs. And it has not been built yet, so I do not know how they come up with that number but maybe it is what they now give all 21's. Someone else can confirm. Or deny on their 21' that is built, on the title maybe.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:11 PM   #27
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Went to the doctor the other day and discovered that my weight was 178 lb.
I thought it was 165 lb.
Used to be, but I kept packing stuff, I guess.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:12 PM   #28
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Weighed my 21 on the road with half a tank of water a few weeks ago. 4100 lbs with all our junk.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:15 PM   #29
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Went to the doctor the other day and discovered that my weight was 178 lb.
I thought it was 165 lb.
Used to be, but I kept packing stuff, I guess.
What you thought it was is the dry weight.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:31 PM   #30
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Thanks, this all is very helpful and informative. But again, remember that it's me you're talking to. The guy who is a few sandwiches shy of a proverbial picnic basket...so in an effort to make it understandable to my befuddled mind, may I recap the FJ weight so far?

This is what I'm hearing; the FJ combined with either the 19' or 21' would be pushing the weight limits with the added stuff we take, but could technically fall within the GVWR or the GCVWR. And that as long as they did not exceed those limits by us exercising the judicious approach to how much we brought, we would be under the published limits and therefore would be upstanding citizens, role models that parents would point to and tell their children "someday, when you are older, I hope you tow just like them".

At least give me credit for asking...I know of people who have attached a trailer to the back of their vehicle and said "yup, its still behind us and our mufflers not dragging so we're good!" and drive off. Brownie points to me!!
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:19 AM   #31
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Having owned both a 19 and a 21 and since I carry about the same amount of stuff, the difference in weight between my 19 and 21 was approximately 400 lbs. My 21 comes in at 3800 and 500 on the tongue weight. It is the 100 lb difference in tongue that may make the FJ squat. If properly loaded, the 21 can be reduced to the equivalent 19 tongue weight.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:26 AM   #32
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The primary differences between towing the 19' and 21' will be the differences in total weight, the difference in tongue weight, and the differences in frontal area between the two. Towing with the FJ, it is not the increased total weight of the 21' that is going to have the greatest impact on towing, it is the tongue weight/sag (as noted above by cpaharley2008), and probably most importantly, the greater wind resistance due to the increased frontal area of the 21' over the 19'.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:46 AM   #33
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Pass the mustard ...
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:14 AM   #34
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Sigh...I don't like where this is going...I sense I need a larger capacity to tow. Even with the 19', if we got the larger fridge, and the oven, and the box out front and 2 6v batteries and, and, and...now I'm depressed (not really). I would have to sell the FJ and get a horrid behemoth pickup, or keep the sardines-in-a-can Casita. Well, the upside to keeping the Casita would be that we already have it...but I kinda rather like the idea of an Escape...life can be so cruel...
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:18 AM   #35
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Nathan,
I think you got the idea. The forum members can post information, add anecdotal notes, make comments but you as the driver and owner are the only one who has the total picture. The goal is to give you as much information as possible for you to make your own decision, that is the beauty of this forum.

I guess what surprised me in all this was the low GCWR for the FJ. I would have expected it to be 10,000 lbs. I wonder if some is due to the short wheel base of the FJ?
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:40 AM   #36
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Nathan,
The thing about these fiberglass trailers is that they will out live several tow vehicles. Try it with the FJ and in a couple of years you can always change.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:42 AM   #37
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It is so upsetting (not really) that the FJ has a the same engine as the Tacoma (239hp) has a 3.73 axle ratio, the wheelbase is only 15" shorter than the Tacoma, has a frame, and torque of 278 lbs and yet can tow 1400 lbs less. I smell something fishy in the state of Denmark! I think it could tow just as well with a couple of airbags in the rear, but somewhere at the 43 floor of a building in a Mega City, some lawyer and bean counter thought that because SUV's are for soccer moms and trucks are for burly fisherman, they'd just assign a lower weight and no one would care. Oh yes, and in case you are wondering, I believe in little green men!
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:43 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanj04011 View Post
Sigh...I don't like where this is going...I sense I need a larger capacity to tow. Even with the 19', if we got the larger fridge, and the oven, and the box out front and 2 6v batteries and, and, and...now I'm depressed (not really). I would have to sell the FJ and get a horrid behemoth pickup, or keep the sardines-in-a-can Casita. Well, the upside to keeping the Casita would be that we already have it...but I kinda rather like the idea of an Escape...life can be so cruel...
I know that I am definitely an outlier here, but think I should pipe up and point out that there are many of us who tow 19s and 21s with vehicles that have a 5000 lb tow capacity, haven't had any problems and are happy with our towing experience. I am thinking of Honda Pilots, Toyota 4Runners, Honda Ridgelines, etc.

I use a 2014 Highlander, and while I don't like its limited bicycle carrying capacity , the driving / towing experience has been just fine. We have traipsed back and forth across the mountains, climbing 7 and 8 % grades several times. I have never felt underpowered. Never had a problem with sway. The only concern I have is not going too fast as we round sharp curves, but having a larger tow vehicle wouldn't mitigate that.

We just had the car in for a check up and oil change. The brakes are wearing normally, in spite of all the towing we have done. On our recent 5500 mile trip we averaged 15.0 mpg (probably about 500 miles of that was without the trailer).

I think CPA Harley had intended to try towing his 21 with his FJ. I don't know if he ever did really did that. But he may be the only person in this discussion who has towed a trailer with an FJ. When looking for towing advice, I try to find people who have experience with the actual vehicle, and figure out if their expectations are similar to mine. That is what I did when we had to buy a new tow vehicle for the 21, and so far it has worked well.

We all have to make our own decisions about this, and in no way am I making light of safety concerns.
Of course if you really want to be sure your tow vehicle will work, you might consider this
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:54 AM   #39
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Two things I remember about my towing with the FJ. First off we have 2 dogs and they really enjoyed the larger rear. We bought one of those bar things to keep them there. But the rear was useless for carrying as the door opens to the side. Other than putting items in the overhead roof rack, everything has to be carried inside the trailer. I also had to use the Andersen with the 19, air bags is an option for leveling but the Andersen also helps with sway. We had a Jeep Liberty prior to the FJ and was familiar with short wheelbase tow vehicles. But once I started towing with the Ram 1500, it was night and day and I never went back to the FJ. I traded it on a Subaru Forrester and got cash back, it does hold it's value, but they also are no longer making them.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:58 AM   #40
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Nathan, you can tow with the FJ. Folks are just pointing out the capacities and the fact that you won't have alot of margin.
I think Jim has it right. Try towing with the FJ for awhile. You can always upgrade later.
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