A Life Story. Oh and Some New Buyer Questions Too!!

[nathanj04011]

Yeah, I've enjoyed my story too. Fun to embellish here and there to provide a bit of lightheartedness. Heaven knows you're glad not to be me! I really was a little surprised at how this turned into a thread mostly about towing. I guess you all could sense the utter danger I contemplating...

It has been informative, insightful, discouraging, amusing and hopeful. Last night I decided since TV was boring, to do what I know best...no, not be a whiner...number-crunch! So I fired up the computer, started the spreadsheet and typed and typed and typed. I used the FJ manual, and the door sticker as my reference, as well as the "real world" dry weight of the 21' given earlier in the thread. This is the gist of it:

GCVWR - 9500 lbs.
GVWR - 5570 lbs.
Max Capacity - 1190 lbs (including tongue weight)
Tongue Weight - 500 lbs.
Curb Weight - 4380 lbs.

21' Dry - 3600 lbs.
Stuff we are going to have in the trailer- 466 lbs.
Total trailer weight - 4066 lbs.

The maximum capacity we will add to the FJ - 1170 lbs

So in my mostly befuddled mind, this is how it thinks (Freud would have a ball with my mind for sure!).

Curb Weight 4380
Cargo/Passengers 1170 (includes tongue weight)
Trailer with all stuff 4066
Totals 9616

Man, thats so close I can taste it. Of course, I used the 21' and went liberal with some weights, so I just need to diet 116 pounds and we will be under the GCVWR, according to my fuzzy logic.

Here's some more story. So last night I dragged my wife (not literally, cave men went extinct in the 60's!) to see that wonderful 2010 Ford F-150 Lariat that had a GCVWR of a mere 14,000, and a honking big V-8 engine, was loaded with every creature comfort a creature could want, was a beautiful white...oh, the miles again? Why ruin my bliss? 127,500. What was the price? $21,800. Rust? "Oh, every vehicle in Maine will have some rust" the sales guy assured me. "uh, not my Toyota" I replied. "Da-- Toyota" I think I heard him mutter. So we drove it. Dreamy. Really.

My wife disappeared inside the FJ while I went in to wear him down. Or was it the other way around? He asked me what it would it take for me to drive it off the lot. I gave him my best, unflinching Clint Eastwood stare and said "an even trade for my FJ" Our eyes locked for what seemed hours and then I realized I had a dog hair on my pants. Dang! Why is it always me who loses the contest? He then laughed and said "goodnight". Seriously. He did. I think he realized that was rude so she called his "manager" to appraise the FJ. Mind you, this is my baby that I baby. Comes back. $13,500. It was my turn to laugh and say goodnight.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by nathanj04011

GCVWR - 9500 lbs.
GVWR - 5570 lbs.
Max Capacity - 1190 lbs (including tongue weight)
Tongue Weight - 500 lbs.
Curb Weight - 4380 lbs.

21' Dry - 3600 lbs.
Stuff we are going to have in the trailer- 466 lbs.
Total trailer weight - 4066 lbs.

The maximum capacity we will add to the FJ - 1170 lbs

So in my mostly befuddled mind, this is how it thinks (Freud would have a ball with my mind for sure!).

Curb Weight 4380
Cargo/Passengers 1170 (includes tongue weight)
Trailer with all stuff 4066
Totals 9616

Two possibilities:

1. the 4066 pounds for the trailer is just what is on the axles, and you are planning to tow an Escape 21' weighing 4600 pounds or more; or,
2. you counted the tongue weight twice, once as part of the 1170 pounds of "Cargo/Passengers", and again as part of the 4066 pounds of "Trailer with all stuff".

4600 pounds would be greater than the allowed GVWR for the Escape 21', so I think you just counted the tongue weight twice.

Try this:

4380 Curb Weight
700 Cargo/Passengers (leaving room for 470 pounds for tongue weight)
4066 Trailer with all stuff
-------
9146 Total Gross Combination Weight

Much more comfortable margin to GCWR.
Too bad that 700 pounds is not a lot of people and cargo for a family (or even some couples).

[float5]

The 21' max allowed is 4600 lbs.

[nathanj04011]

Like I'm going to argue with your logic!!; See, I knew if folks saw my colossal ignorance of basic life and math skills, someone would have pity and give me the correct answer BEFORE they called the men in white overcoats to come take me away where I could not hurt myself... Thanks for helping me with basic math!!

[Rossue]

Hmmm...so I may be done here- but in the almost two years participating on this forum I've only seen two folks that blather all over the place & then confess they're probably wannabees. Should've trusted my instincts to NOT respond to first timers that spew.

[nathanj04011]

I'm sorry, Rossue. Thought this forum was for people shopping for Escapes. Which I am doing. I may have a bit of verbose fun in the process, but I guess I outwore my welcome. I'll leave the forum until such time as I OWN an Escape and have a right to post. As to the others, while I poked fun here and there, I DO appreciate your feedback. Much appreciated!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Floating Cloud

The 21' max allowed is 4600 lbs.

From the Escape Trailer Industries specs page for the 21 Foot Escape:

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 4500lbs

... so maybe the spec changed and the web page is out of date but the 100 pounds isn't important. The point is just that it might not make sense to plan on towing the trailer at (or above) its maximum limit, when others don't find the need to carry that much stuff. Thus my guess - apparently correct - that the target was really 4066 pounds of trailer, and the tongue weight was just accidentally counted twice... an easy minor slip to make.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by nathanj04011

Thought this forum was for people shopping for Escapes. Which I am doing. I may have a bit of verbose fun in the process, but I guess I outwore my welcome. I'll leave the forum until such time as I OWN an Escape and have a right to post.

There is no requirement to own an Escape to participate in this forum, and it is normal for buyers to get information and explore possibilities here first, before buying... in some cases years later. You understood one of the purposes of the forum correctly, and you certainly have a right to post.

From the Community Rules:

This is a community of individuals who share a common interest in Escape Fiberglass RVs.

Some long-time members should probably re-read some of the other rules...

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

From the Escape Trailer Industries specs page for the 21 Foot Escape:


... so maybe the spec changed and the web page is out of date but the 100 pounds isn't important. The point is just that it might not make sense to plan on towing the trailer at (or above) its maximum limit, when others don't find the need to carry that much stuff. Thus my guess - apparently correct - that the target was really 4066 pounds of trailer, and the tongue weight was just accidentally counted twice... an easy minor slip to make.

They have told us 4600 for ours in the last few days. I thought that their website also had 4600 but I see that it does not. I suppose it is not impossible that it is particular to our unit. It is likelier, however, that the new number is 4600 and the change is not yet made on the website. I see that the 19' is 2610. It used to be 2510.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

There is no requirement to own an Escape to participate in this forum, and it is normal for buyers to get information and explore possibilities here first, before buying... in some cases years later. You understood one of the purposes of the forum correctly, and you certainly have a right to post.

From the Community Rules:

Some long-time members should probably re-read some of the other rules...

Right, but do people have to be codswallop, bilge or jabberwocky?

[gbaglo]

Relax.

[Mike Lewis]

Here are some answers to some of your other questions.

Originally Posted by nathanj04011

2. If so, on the 21', with the bed being the size and shape it is (I was sobbing my eyes out when I saw it was no bigger than our Casita's) do you feel cramped with 3 walls surrounding you?

...

We exclusively use the bathroom, never campgrounds, so a nice fit is always a pleasant thing.

...

9. Where do people store their dirty clothes? My wife was thinking of places to put them but we don't want to permanently replace storage (i.e. a dirty clothes hamper in the hanging storage closet).

I have an Escape 21 that I use for long trips. I travel alone. Regarding the bed, I understand your concern. I was afraid it would be a bit claustrophobic, but I had no trouble adjusting to it. A front window is available which might ameliorate any closed-in feeling (I don't have the window), but really, I didn't find it to be a problem.

I don't know about the Casita's bathroom, but like you I use the trailer bathroom exclusively and don't use campground bathrooms. This hasn't been a problem, either, even on long trips. I do some of my best thinking there.

As for laundry, I have a big duffel bag I bought at Walmart that will hold two weeks' of clothes, somewhat to my amazement. Every two weeks I go look for a laundromat. I sit the duffel on the opposite dinette seat since it isn't being used.

Hope this helps. I don't know a thing about towing with an FJ.

[rbryan4]

The chill pills are on the upper shelf in the medicine cabinet. You'll find them right behind the untouched bottle of antacid.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by nathanj04011

I'm sorry, Rossue. Thought this forum was for people shopping for Escapes. Which I am doing. I may have a bit of verbose fun in the process, but I guess I outwore my welcome. I'll leave the forum until such time as I OWN an Escape and have a right to post. As to the others, while I poked fun here and there, I DO appreciate your feedback. Much appreciated!

Hey, Nathanj - ignore the twits. I had the same thing basically (although not worded the same) happen to me when I joined. I was super excited about what I was discovering. Maybe too excited for some folks as I got my hands slapped in a few posts. I was horribly upset by it and about ready to quit the forum. I did get a private msg that helped put things in perspective and I'm still here. And still posting.

I also had someone state I should stop trying to decide which trailer I wanted and just choose. My signature used to say something to the effect we were trying to decide. Okay, I wasn't sure if that person was teasing or serious, but it did kind of take me aback.

Not everyone can pick out their trailer right away. Not everyone has the financial means to buy a new trailer and towing vehicle right away, regardless of the fact you only need $500 to put your name down for one. There is the other $60,000+ to consider (trailer and truck for what we want). So, for those that can - cut some slack to those of us that have to wait. I get excited at every little bit that gets added to the savings account, but I do keep that excitement to myself as I know someone on this forum will get pissy about it.

As in other aspects of life, there are pissy people everywhere. Hey, I get pissy! (esp when I have low blood sugar!) We all do.

Just keep reading the various posts, keep learning, keep track of what all you're learning (spreadsheets, bookmarked threads, brochures, samples, etc) and keep going forward. Keep thinking about that nifty Escape trailer that could very well be in your future. If not right away, at least you've got a trailer to use in the meanwhile (we don't and it drives me nuts at times, but it is what it is).

Another thing to consider. If you do get a 19', as you might have seen from other posts here, they sell very quickly when they're offered up for sale (as it seems with most all of the Escape trailers listed). So, if you get the 19 and decide later on you really needed that 21' as well as something other than the FJ (slap my hands for saying that!), then you know you'll still have good value in the 19' (if you feel more comfortable towing that with the FJ than the 21').

Just for grins I did some cruising around for prices on used FJs and they're still at a pretty decent price. Granted, not as trade ins, but for selling on your own.

Last note - I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts. Maybe one day we'll meet in person and we can yak about the twits on this list.

[gbaglo]

Refrain from name-calling.

Be Courteous!
We aim to ensure that the forum is an enjoyable place that you want to visit time and time again. Please treat each other with respect just as you would around a campfire.

[escape artist]

Hi: NW Cat Owner... I've been here since day 1 and I still get knocked from pillar to post. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: NW Cat Owner... I've been here since day 1 and I still get knocked from pillar to post. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

That is 'cause you are tough and resilient, and can take it without getting knocked down, Alf. Your are like one of those Weebles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr83YRkbXpw

I too have been here from Day 1, and have learned to try and take some of the unnecessary negative comments in stride, and instead dwell on the positives, and the fun, that the vast majority of members bring to the table.

[Klem]

To all,

I think it should be safe to say that there is some bullying going on this 'playground'. And like a school playground there are some people that have formed alliances and bully other people they don't like playing in 'their' space.

No warning for multiple messages insulting Nathan and other "first timers that spew" but "Twit' which can be used as a noun or verb is? My Dad would say "you knucklehead, stop calling your sister names" .... Some of you sound like that. I would much rather see "Twit" then "first timers that spew", "blather", "take a chill pill" and other posts which resulted in Nathan feeling unwelcome.

Nathan probably doesn't realize yet that this is the ETI 'sales floor' with a $200 C bounty on his head. The sooner he purchases a trailer the sooner the bounty is paid.

That said, lot's of interesting mods, ideas and problem solving can be 'gleaned' from these pages. And like the schoolyard those kids grew up to be adults ... and some of them are playing here.

Klem

[escape artist]

Hi: Klem...Right on!!! Some of them "Kids" never grew up... they just got older. I know I'm one. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Loren & Cathy]

I don't what the flap is all about or if there is one but I joined this forum 6 months before we ordered the trailer. We bought the new tow vehicle first and weren't sure which trailer it was going to be. I think our trailer is going to start the manufacturing process in a couple of weeks and this forum has been invaluable for the information it has provided and questions it has answered. Without this forum, finalizing the build sheet would have been a struggle. We have all got to start somewhere. With us, it was an ad for a Scamp. Loren