Aux propane connection inside

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by StillCampin

To clarify - this post was not looking for opinions tho it immediately became that. It was a simple question for possible experience regarding a potential build request.

To me, expressing your experience is an opinion.....

[sclifrickson]

So, Tom, just to summarize, you’d like to permanently install a non-vented auxiliary propane heater, in addition to the standard vented one, in order to save the amperage used by the standard heater’s blower, despite the associated condensation issues and elevated suffocation risk. Is that about right?

[StillCampin]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

To me, expressing your experience is an opinion.....

I hate to continue this but, tho I agree with your statement, very few responces have been concerning my question

"Has anyone done this - ie: gotten an aux propane connection inside the trailer?",

let alone anyone's experience regarding asking for an inside connection or even experience using the Wave heater.

[StillCampin]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

So, Tom, just to summarize, you’d like to permanently install a non-vented auxiliary propane heater, in addition to the standard vented one, in order to save the amperage used by the standard heater’s blower, despite the associated condensation issues and elevated suffocation risk. Is that about right?

Save amperage, save propane, save noise, raise condensation & risk suffocation - yes, tho the last one is miniscule to non-existant with ventilation and condensation is minimized if not completely eliminated since I have a dehumidifier (more than one, even).

[gbaglo]

It appears that you don't want to use the installed furnace because it uses power, but plan to use the Wave, which produces condensation, and then use a powered dehumidifier to solve that problem.
Am I out to lunch?

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by StillCampin

I hate to continue this but, tho I agree with your statement, very few responces have been concerning my question



"Has anyone done this - ie: gotten an aux propane connection inside the trailer?",



let alone anyone's experience regarding asking for an inside connection or even experience using the Wave heater.

I suspect the reason no one has given you a direct answer to the question of “Has anyone done this?” is because no one has done this. For all of the reasons and concerns listed above.

Congratulations, you get to be a ground breaker! Please let us know what ETI says when you ask [emoji106]

[Viajante]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Ask any question and you are bound to get different opinions both for and against
If there is only one answer then there is no reason to ask the question .
As my father use to tell me “. Don’t waste my time asking for my opinion when your going to do what you want anyway “

.

I don't see how any of this applies. The OP initial plan was to consider using a quick connect to install a propane heater. After receiving some comments about installation codes it is apparent that he is rethinking the original plan and may go with an old fashioned solid connection. Sounds to me like he was open to opinions about the quick connect and changed his plan in light of information some members offered.

And the OP offered some good insight into the use of Wave heaters. Particularly, I thought, clearing up the misconception that the heaters produce CO. I hope he continues to contribute to the forum.

[StillCampin]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

It appears that you don't want to use the installed furnace because it uses power, but plan to use the Wave, which produces condensation, and then use a powered dehumidifier to solve that problem.
Am I out to lunch?

Not completely. Power use is only part of it. The furnace sends a lot of the heat outside, "wasting" a large portion of the potential btu from the propane. I use the heater and the powered dehumidifier even when I have power and save on propane.

And, for boondocking, the Eva-Dry 500 is similar to other dissicant setups - no power except for the periodic recharge cycle that dries the dissicant out for reuse. No where near as good as the powered model but it helps.

[StillCampin]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Congratulations, you get to be a ground breaker! Please let us know what ETI says when you ask [emoji106]

Definately.

[StillCampin]

Originally Posted by Viajante

. .... Responding to. ...^^^^^

I certainly don't need a QC, per se, but I was running with the idea that ETI installs one outside, why not consider one being in a cupboard inside.

A hose running along the floor of my Aframe is what I currently have. I want to eliminate that and mounting the heater on a cabinet/door, or, better yet, on an articulating tv mount within a cabinet, would do that.

[SFDavis50]

You can also buy additional CO detectors for the trailer. I bought a 10 year Lithium Ion battery CO detector from Costco for $10.00 off ($24.00) just because I am paranoid about not waking up even using the standard furnace with the propane and smoke/CO detectors which came standard with the trailer.

I think the rules/code for trailers require that the propane line goes into the trailer for each connection to an appliance. On my 5.0TA there is a T connection under the trailer for the furnace, another for the refrigerator, one for the water heater and one for the stove, each goes to and terminates to only one appliance. I believe there is also a vent hole in the floor near each appliance so that the heaver-than-air propane can drain out if there is a leak in the connection inside the trailer. I imagine ETI very carefully leak tested the inside connections as part of their QC inspection.

[bdornbush]

Originally Posted by StillCampin

Save amperage, save propane, save noise, raise condensation & risk suffocation - yes, tho the last one is miniscule to non-existant with ventilation and condensation is minimized if not completely eliminated since I have a dehumidifier (more than one, even).

I installed a Wave heater in a vintage trailer I owned before the Escape to replace a leaking propane heater that used no power and was vented. I could not find a replacement for it so I installed the catalytic heater with its benefits of efficiency and no CO2 production. When I sold the trailer, I was glad to no longer have the Wave heater for one primary and one secondary reason. The primary reason was that the heat is directional so that if you are facing the heater, you get warm and if you are not, you don't. I find the furnace in the Eclipse much more comfortable. The secondary reason is that I didn't feel comfortable sleeping with it on because of its consumption of oxygen. I installed twin batteries and solar in my Escape so I never need to worry about having enough electric power to power the furnace and with twin propane tanks, I have not come close to running out of propane or battery power. After 150 nights in the Escape, I believe I have used two tanks of propane and I have camped where it gets cold at night. YMMV.

[StillCampin]

After further consideration & 2.5 hours with Mark (Mark&Elaine) "touring" his 5.0TA, I have decided that my Wave heater, tho still desired, doesn't need an inside connection or a permanent home in a cabinet. I still like the idea of saving propane over the furnace so I'll go another route for temporary use. The generator can just be used for topping off the batteries if needed even if I don't need it for the electric chest battery. Bringing the hose in via the little hatch and into/thru the base of the dinette area would work just fine with the prudent use of a forstner bit and a little hatch or two.

[Wanderers]

Keep warm! I jumped to the end, but it sounds like everyone has aired their safety/liability concerns, so I'll stick to the original question.
Why not just set an eleven pound tank and hose inside the trailer with the appropriate detectors and forget about drilling? The tank isn't that big and you can move your heat exactly where you want it. It'll fit under the bed or dinette when not in use.

[StillCampin]

Originally Posted by Wanderers

Why not just set an eleven pound tank and hose inside the trailer with the appropriate detectors and forget about drilling?

That particular level of potential danger is beyond my comfort zone. Besides, the tank then becomes something to be in the way when in use. I'll have the Lagun mount table specifically to get it out of the way and in the 5.0TA there is no "under the bed" for storage.

For this use it makes sense to me to use the ETI provided low pressure QC and run the hose inside via the exterior hatch or, even better, an empty electric cord mouse hole.

[AllanEdie]

Originally Posted by StillCampin

...the only “combustion gasses” produced by the Wave catalytic heater is water vapor ...

If someone has mentioned this, I missed it. Catalytic heaters may not produce CO (if they are working perfectly, which is another story) but they do produce lots of CO2. IMHO no one should sleep in an enclosed space the size of one of these trailers with one of these heaters going. Ventilation may seem adequate, but air currents around the trailer could defeat it, and as far as I know, none of the detectors commonly available will sound the alarm in response to elevated CO2 levels. CO2 is not as poisonous as CO, but it is bad news at elevated levels. And of course, if CO2 in the trailer is up, O2 is down a corresponding amount.



By the time you consider the heated air that must be vented to get rid of CO2 and moisture, the issue of propane efficiency in comparison to the vented furnace may not amount to much.

[StillCampin]

Originally Posted by AllanEdie

IMHO no one should sleep in an enclosed space the size of one of these trailers with one of these heaters going.

Tho many people report leaving then on all night, I'm not one of them. Besides the potential safety issues, this type of heater is essentially useless without being in direct line of the heating effect thus nightime is almost a waste. Besides, there is no thermostat control and I like it cool (~60°F) at night.

Originally Posted by AllanEdie

By the time you consider the heated air that must be vented to get rid of CO2 and moisture, the issue of propane efficiency in comparison to the vented furnace may not amount to much.

With the Escape being quite sealed that is an issue I have no experience with but quite likely true. But I use the Wave heater in my Clam screen room and want to maintain the possibility of using it in the Escape.

It would be great to discover that the furnace is adequate while solar recharges the battery usage adequately. I don't believe my current 100 watt panel would but having 2 put on by ETI more than likely could, especially if I rig up a tilting turn table mount like I have on the Aframe dormer roof.

[rbryan4]

Alot depends on how cold it is where you camp Tom, but having said that, I can tell you that we've boondocked several times in places where the furnace cycled a good part of the night, and by mid-morning our single 160W factory installed panel had recovered the batteries.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Viajante

And the OP offered some good insight into the use of Wave heaters. Particularly, I thought, clearing up the misconception that the heaters produce CO.

That's not a misconception. All imperfect combustion hydrocarbon fuels produces some carbon monoxide, and in poor conditions that production is substantial. That is true whether the combustion is in an open flame or over a catalyst. This is why all of these unvented heaters have safety warnings... including the catalytic heaters.

A catalyst only lowers the energy to initiate the oxidation reaction (burning), so the combustion temperature is lower. It doesn't change the reaction or the products.

Originally Posted by bdornbush

I installed a Wave heater in a vintage trailer I owned before the Escape to replace a leaking propane heater that used no power and was vented. I could not find a replacement for it so I installed the catalytic heater with its benefits of efficiency and no CO2 production.

I hope that you mean "CO" (carbon monoxide), since water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2) are the only products of complete combustion of a hydrocarbon fuel such as propane. The "vented" catalytic heaters are not completely vented, so some exhaust - including the carbon monoxide when (as always) combustion is imperfect - may enter the trailer.

[Wanderers]

To put some numbers on it, a trailer the size of an Escape 5.0 holds about 36 pounds of circulating air, including 21% O2 (7.5 pounds) and 0.35% CO2 (.12 pounds).
Operating a Wave 3 flat out burns about 0.6 pounds propane per hour, consuming 2.3 pounds O2 and generating 1.8 pounds CO2 and 1 pound water.
In a sealed space, this would result in an atmosphere with 15% O2 after one hour (hypoxia sets in below 18%) and 5% CO2. (Anything above 1% is really uncomfortable, but not as dire as the O2 deficit.)
Fortunately Tom is not running the heater flat out, has a vent open, the heater has a low O2 shutoff, and there's a propane monitor to detect any issues with his homemade supply line. Hopefully this helps quantify the risks.