Changes and new standards comparing old to new models

[Artlady]

In fact, the finer points of insulation and condensation is discussed in another current thread. Lots of good info, too. Boone is discussing it at length.

These two threads alone just saved me a lot of aftermarket $ in an errant purchase.

[float5]

Insulation with thermal windows is an option, so many do not have that. You have guessed right though that it makes a difference for re-sale. Many prospective buyers are also looking for A/C even if they live in the north because they plan to travel in the south.

[Artlady]

True, Cathy!
So many options from which to choose...although the extra insulation, thermal windows, and A/c seem to be common themes nowadays for comfortable camping.
Thanks for your addition!

[Thane]

Attached are some files I made back in 2005 through 2007 detailing the cost and availability of various standard and optional items on 2005, 2006 and 2007 Escape 17Bs and comparable Casita and Scamp trailers. The exchange rate at the time was used to figure the approximate cost in US$.

I used the 2005 and 2006 data to select my Escape. The 2007 data was added just for fun I guess as the standards and options had changed.

The "2005-2006 Escape and Casita & Scamp Trailer Spreadsheet" has some yellow cells, these are the cost of options I was interested in and were added to the Base Price to get the "TOTAL with options shown in Yellow" row. This will make more sense after you see the file.

I bought the Escape sight unseen and used the spreadsheets to compare various configurations and the other main fiberglass trailers.

[Thane]

You may notice a jump in the price of Escapes between 2005 and 2006. They switched to a dealership sales concept for a short time in 2006 and the price reflected the added middleman profit and expenses. They went back to factory direct in mid 2006 as the dealership option didn't work out. The price dropped back down when they went back to factory direct but the prices were as shown when I made file in early 2006.

[Buddy]

Our 2008 17B does not have a shower or sink but does have the toilet. Many I've talked to rarely use the shower in their units because of humidity and space. I suspect that the sink is just too small to be of much use, in particular with the very small space of the bathroom in the 17B.

[Artlady]

Thane...wow!
First off, A HUGE , huge thank you!
To share your extensive information is just so generous and kind. It's obvious you put so much time and thought into your research, and I really appreciate you taking the time to upload and share it!

I was in the process of doing something similar...seeing your methodology along with the facts and figures that you've accumulated has sped up my process. Very wise indeed!

It appears that you took great care into comparing "apples with apples" and adjusted where necessary.
I'm a very visual person, and seeing this amount of information located in one space really helps! You've made it much easier for me to make sense of all of this, and I appreciate it very much. I am sure it will help many more people who are shopping around too!

Now, I can just extend the spreadsheets to include bits of information as needed, depending on the year of trailer I'm considering.

[Artlady]

Originally Posted by Thane

You may notice a jump in the price of Escapes between 2005 and 2006. They switched to a dealership sales concept for a short time in 2006 and the price reflected the added middleman profit and expenses. They went back to factory direct in mid 2006 as the dealership option didn't work out. The price dropped back down when they went back to factory direct but the prices were as shown when I made file in early 2006.

This is also a helpful bit of history that can help explain some price differences regarding resale. As I've researched, I did notice there were so many other factors besides options that were affecting pricing. Age, exchange rates, condition, and now I'll add this tidbit to the list.

So, what age and model did you end up buying? And why the Escape vs. the other brands?
In looking at your spreadsheets (which I must examine much more closely), is there anything on paper that really jumped out at you in helping your final decision?
Again, I think it's wonderful of you to share such time-intensive work and info... so much!

[Artlady]

Originally Posted by Buddy

Our 2008 17B does not have a shower or sink but does have the toilet. Many I've talked to rarely use the shower in their units because of humidity and space. I suspect that the sink is just too small to be of much use, in particular with the very small space of the bathroom in the 17B.

Hi Buddy,
I hadn't realized that this was yet another possible configuration. It makes sense, however, from a space and humidity standpoint. Did you purposefully choose this option, or did you purchase used?
How does it work for you?
Would you change anything if you could at this point?
I just wonder if outdoor showering is a significant issue when camping in cooler seasons (when boondocking or if no community showers are available)?
Thanks for your comment!

[Artlady]

In reading the recent comments here, I'm now wondering if a dedicated bathroom space even warrants amount of room it takes up. I'll have to search the other threads of the merits of the 17 A versus the B now!
Sooooo, another column added to the spreadsheet!
Great info, everyone!

[jxoco]

Originally Posted by Artlady

In reading the recent comments here, I'm now wondering if a dedicated bathroom space even warrants amount of room it takes up. I'll have to search the other threads of the merits of the 17 A versus the B now!
Sooooo, another column added to the spreadsheet!
Great info, everyone!

Many, many years ago we went to ETI when they were starting up and were in an old chicken barn or something.
At the time we asked if they could make us a 17B without a washroom and instead use the space for a much longer counter for the sink and stove. We didn't want the work of tank draining and such. We never carried through with that purchase, got a truck camper instead.
Fast forward 10 or more years and just this year we bought a used 17B. Well, we love the toilet and the shower. And others are right, for us the sink is just a thing to have the taps on to control the mix to the shower.
We like to camp when it is hot out and a short shower at the end of the day is very refreshing.
So that is my opinion to add to your spreadsheet. If I buy another camper it MUST have a toilet and shower.
As to 'why an escape?' is more of a 'why a fiberglass trailer?' question. I have two answers, thirty five years ago I owned a corvette (fiberglass) and it has been the only car that I sold for more than I bought it for. They hold the value because they don't fall apart because of rust and rot. Most of your maintenance is on actually broke or worn out things, but it is never as bad as 'the whole car needs to be replaced'. I put that reasoning into he fiberglass trailer. Probably unfounded reasoning, which leads to...
Answer two; because of fiberglass's ability to be less harmed by water. Most Campers and Trailers have water damage, you just haven't looked for it if you think there is none. It seems that with the right amount of dehumidification the fiberglass trailer can overcome moisture damage because it should just be from cooking and exhaling and condensation, not from rain.

[Thane]

Thanks for the kind words on my spreadsheets. There was not a lot of info on Escapes in 2005 when I started looking for a trailer. This forum did not exist and fiberglassrv.com had very little info. I was looking at stick built trailers then rented Casitas for family camping a couple times to see if small is better, it is!
I priced a Casita and Scamp then stumbled on Escape before ordering. The Escape was more kid friendly and was a much nicer trailer. It is a Cadillac compared to the other brands. The bathroom and forward bunkbeds made it great for us but the black water tank size was a concern.
The spreadsheet took a bit of work but since I couldn't see an Escape (none in Ca, Ut or Nv) it helped me justify the added cost.
I was getting ready to order a 17B after Christmas 2005 when the price jumped due to the dealership sales concept but the 2005 cost quote was honored so I bought a 2006 at the 2005 price.
The interior shower is rarely used for showering but often used for cleaning the room after camping. A quick rinse and wipe of everything keeps it nice and clean.
The exterior shower gets lots of use. Besides washing the dog and rinsing off the kids after swimming, I set it up as an outside hand wash station with campers soap and a towel on a suction cup hanger.
It would be interesting to see how the prices and options have changed over the years.
Good luck on your project.

[Artlady]

I've really enjoyed the conversation and hearing about both the growth of the models and available options through the years. The history definitely helps put everything in perspective for me.
Yes, Thane, I can really identify with "stumbling across " the Escape during the search for FG trailers... I, too, heard of the Casita brand first.
My own research over the recent past has also shown ithe Escape's superiority. Also, I do have some unique circumstances in which the other makers can't possibly meet.

Jx, thanks for adding a bit of your camping "routine" to the mix, and your opinion.
It helps!
A seemingly simple thing...but having the sink and taps makes sense now, at least for the shower supply.
Ok. Well, I've got to go see more different models and ages in person to compare.
The search goes on!
Cheers, and

[float5]

Thane and jxoco, interesting info on the situation way back with Escapes. It reminds us again that they have come a long way in a short time. I told Reace I was amazed that he has built seven models in a few short years. Still can't believe how much they have done and the myriad changes.

The new refrigerator is a definite improvement as it cools down to the thirties faster. We had the 5.0 model in the 19'.

Like having the bathroom sink for sure with hot water. Hot water is one of the best features of the trailer. We turn it on and off morning and night as it stays hot a long time. For a shower, it can be too hot depending on when heated so have to be careful of that.

[Artlady]

Cathy, yes, Thus the reason for my thread! So many models, with improvements and changes over the short amount of years in production. These changes were obviously because of necessity, perfecting issues, and replacing things that were either problematic or could be rendered more useful.
All of these things are helpful to know as one searches for a used trailer.
Thanks for your comment!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Buddy

Our 2008 17B does not have a shower or sink but does have the toilet.

Originally Posted by Artlady

I hadn't realized that this was yet another possible configuration.

The current features include "Interior Shower Pkg" (which includes the water heater and the fiberglass liner that makes the bathroom a shower) in the features of the 17B. I thought this was a strange way to describe the bathroom - gathering some elements into a package rather than just listing them individually - until I realized that it had previously been optional. The base equipment of the bathroom-equipped 17B did not include the shower (the room would be wood-paneled, not fiberglass) so it was offered as an option. The option description lives on, buried in the standard features.

The 17-foot Boler had the same arrangement in the late 1970's: the only floor plan included the bathroom, but the package of water heater, fiberglass liner, and shower plumbing was included in the upgrade to the heater/shower version.

I assume that few people ordered a trailer with a bathroom but without the shower, so that combination was dropped.

[SpokanEscape]

Dear Artlady - one factor you might consider since you spoke of dealing with increasing disability is that a bathroom in your trailer is far preferable to traipsing some distance through a campground to the restroom.