Changes and new standards comparing old to new models

[Artlady]

Hello to the Escape Community!

Where can I find all about any changes in the evolution of the Escape trailer models over the years? Specifically, the 17B.

In my search for used models, I haven't been able to find this comparative information.

So, if anyone has anything to offer, please do!

I'm looking for changes along the way from 2004 all the way up to the present.

Including, but not limited to the following:
1. Changes in floor plans
2. Changes/upgrades/monitors in major appliance/system locations.
3. Safety modifications - what year(s).
4. Changes in what was "standard" vs. options.
5. Problems/recalls in older models.
6. Additions/modifications made at the factory that improved the trailer experience, function, safety, etc.
7. Any "downsides" or major problems buyers found after procuring an older model?

Also, if there's anything to look out for in a much older model that may need addressing.

If I've forgotten something on the list, please add! I'm not sure if I'm missing anything...
Thanks SO much!

[cpaharley2008]

Perhaps Escape Trailers may be a good starting point in your quest. AFAIK, there has only been one Escape 17 model, some with and some without a bath, but otherwise the same front and rear layouts and options. Also the a/c was wall mounted in earlier models but now located on the roof. The option/standard list has grown over the years as more members ask for the same item, for example the digital thermostat. The other changes have just been supplier changes, causing Escape changes.
Have you seen an Escape 17 yet?

[Artlady]

Hi there Jim. Thanks for some very good and concise info!
So aside from no change in the floor plan, the changes in location or monitors, switches or indicators is what I'm primarily looking for. Some of these of course address both the updating as well as safety modifications I was wondering about.

Knowing about the A/C change in location also helps.

No, I haven't viewed the interior of escape in person yet. Was hoping to do so this past weekend. Unfortunately, I could not attend this past weekend's rally. But I do know there are several owners near me and I can visit them in the very near future.

I've looked at the escape training video, as well as others posted online. So this gives me a good idea of the layout that newer models have, along with some of the technological items added, changed, or upgraded.
I haven't seen videos of much older models however, and don't know if they have these upgrades or what model year incorporates such changes. Hence the questions.

So if you or anyone else could elucidate further, it would be most appreciated. Thank you!

[Brian B-P]

I think Jim's summary is good.

Although some models have been available with or without a bathroom, I'm not aware of any floor plan changes.

Model range changes:

• Additional models added (originally was only the 17 Foot)
• The 13 Foot was discontinued.
• The 15 Foot was discontinued.
• The original 5.0 was replaced by the 5.0TA.

Some equipment changes - not all are due to changes by suppliers

• scissors-type stabilizer jacks replaced by single-leg type
• single-leg stabilizer model changed
• furnace model changed from 8012 to AFSAD12 (Atwood discontinued original model)
• coupler brand/model changed
• brand of converter / power distribution panel changed

Some design changes

• sewage outlet plumbing configuration changed on at least one model
• low-point plumbing drains eliminated
• frame bend design changed (from bent to welded mitre)
• main frame member size changed on 15', 17' and 19' (from 1.5"x3" to 2"x4")
• upward offset in tongue of 17' removed, then restored
• start angle of Torflex suspension changed to raise ride height
• dual propane tanks on 17' changed from inline to across tongue (to accommodate storage box)

[cpaharley2008]

As far as monitors or switches, that is up to the owner's preference or there maybe a factory location. Escape is very flexible. I'd suggest you look here thru the build pictures to get an idea http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...iday-3244.html

[Artlady]

Brian, your list was golden! Thank you so very much! Even the most subtle change like the location of a drain or an outlet is important for me to know. It has to do with my physical abilities and accessibility.
So I really appreciated you taking the time to write this list, and as comprehensive as it was! huge thanks!
Now I shall add it to my ever growing list of things to know!

[Artlady]

Hi Jim, again, I love reading your comments, as you give such good advice and info! I also appreciate the time you take to explain things, especially to us newbies.

Your patience and kindness is very much appreciated

I will certainly take your advice and look through those and try to locate things that are important to me. thanks so much again!

[cpaharley2008]

Enjoy yourself, do not forget all those unpacked boxes you have sitting around...

[Canadark]

There's a 2005 Escape 17B for sale in Washington state posted here: 2005 17Ft Escape | Eatonville, WA | Fiberglass RV's For Sale

In the photos you can see the exact location of the Air Conditioning unit, above the refrigerator on the passenger side (A/C is roof mounted now). Also note that the toilet is on the left side of the bath (it is on the right side now) and there is no bathroom sink. The shower controls are near the floor. The bathroom door is on the right side of the enclosure (it is on the left side of the enclosure in current 17Bs).

There is a bi-fold screen door instead of a retractable one.

I have no idea when these changes were implemented, but when shopping it would be something to ask about on a used one.

[Vermilye]

One of the problems with a list of changes is many trailers have been custom built. For example, one design change I'm interested in is a 19 with the table & bed reversed. Escape has built at least one that way. Because Escape is willing to consider many changes in accessories & layout, every trailer you look at MAY be changed from stock.

You can add to Brian's list changes in the refrigerator. For example, I have the 5 cu ft fridge in my 2011 17B. It was an option at the time, but is no longer available. They have also switched from the single door to the two door refrigerator for the option in the larger trailers.

I believe there have also been some changes in the size of the fresh water, gray & black tanks over the years.

Again, it probably would be best to look at each trailer as an individual product since both Escape & the owners make many modifications or changes.

[Artlady]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Enjoy yourself, do not forget all those unpacked boxes you have sitting around...

Ugh...don't remind me...in fact, I've spent 'way too much time on this forum today!
thanks again!

[Artlady]

Canadark and Vermilye, i'm just about to sign off, and view your comments off-line later. They are well written, informative, and need more of a response. Thank you so very much though for posting! Appreciate this and all other comments. All have been very helpful and very kind..., I appreciate that so much!

[pkgman51]

Jon:
We have a 19 with the dinette and bed reversed. This is the configuration we saw first and thought it came that way. I was surprised standard is having the dinette up front. Dinette in back loses the queen size bed in favor of a bed about twin size in the front. We feel the larger back dinette makes the interior feel bigger. It puts us "in" the campsite as opposed to looking out the front of the trailer at the campsite entrance. Although we don't anticipate this happening, we can sit six at the table. Our table isn't on pillars. It's on a moveable spring loaded apparatus that allows it to be moved in any direction besides up and down. Finally, I put drawers under the front bed that give me easy access to the underbed storage. There are pics on this site. My wife and I have different sleep schedules. I go to bed early, she later. So, we convert the dinette to a bed every evening, not a big deal, and I sleep up front. It works well for us. We think this is a great configuration.
Gary

[Artlady]

Canadark and Jon, thanks for the information and further insight. Makes me wonder, has anyone had difficulties or problems not having a sink in the bathroom? Or is it rather moot?

What about accessibility with the shower controls on the floor?
With the different configuration of the propane tanks to accommodate a storage trailer, would that be difficult to change and retrofit into a much older trailer that doesn't have a storage box?
Any pros and cons regarding the screen door configuration?
Changing out the fridge?

One much older trailer I am considering (pre-2007) doesn't have the thermal windows or insulation underneath. Are these things that can be retrofitted at this point? Also, for those of us living in colder climates, has this been a significant issue? Any thoughts from campers who don't have the extra insulation?

Given the age of two trailers I am considering, they seem to be comparable to similar-aged/condition Casitas I am also considering.. Especially without the insulation, thermal windows, storage box, without the higher axle, sway bars or Anderson hitch, etc. etc.

It seems that the later model Escapes have many more standard items that at least according to these forums, are almost vital or a given. Especially for resale. At least, that's my initial impression...what are your thoughts?

Yikes. I hope this does not spark another firestorm, so PLEASE don't jump all over me!

But, in comparing these older Escape models, to similar-aged and condition casita models, is there much difference, then?
I'd like to hear also, from people with older Escape trailers and those who might have had both brands. Thank you in advance!

[Vermilye]

I can answer a few of your questions -

Originally Posted by Artlady

Canadark and Jon, thanks for the information and further insight. Makes me wonder, has anyone had difficulties or problems not having a sink in the bathroom? Or is it rather moot?

What about accessibility with the shower controls on the floor?
With the different configuration of the propane tanks to accommodate a storage trailer, would that be difficult to change and retrofit into a much older trailer that doesn't have a storage box?

Since the pan for the propane tanks is welded to the frame, it would require cutting/rewelding to install the new pan in the other direction.

Any pros and cons regarding the screen door configuration?

Changing out the fridge?

There are a limited number of models of refrigerators that will fit through the Escape door.

One much older trailer I am considering (pre-2007) doesn't have the thermal windows or insulation underneath. Are these things that can be retrofitted at this point? Also, for those of us living in colder climates, has this been a significant issue? Any thoughts from campers who don't have the extra insulation?

While anything is possible, retrofitting to the insulation package would require completely removing the interior vinyl wall covering to add the additional insulation, then replacing the interior covering - a major job. The windows could be retrofitted, but a fairly expensive process. One of the biggest advantages of the added insulation package is less condensation during cold weather. I've also noticed that the trailer stays cooler in summer sun than my friend's Scamp.

Given the age of two trailers I am considering, they seem to be comparable to similar-aged/condition Casitas I am also considering.. Especially without the insulation, thermal windows, storage box, without the higher axle, sway bars or Anderson hitch, etc. etc.

It seems that the later model Escapes have many more standard items that at least according to these forums, are almost vital or a given. Especially for resale. At least, that's my initial impression...what are your thoughts?

Yikes. I hope this does not spark another firestorm, so PLEASE don't jump all over me!

But, in comparing these older Escape models, to similar-aged and condition casita models, is there much difference, then?
I'd like to hear also, from people with older Escape trailers and those who might have had both brands. Thank you in advance!

There are many differences between brands of trailers, some aesthetic & some more practical. For example, most Casita 17's have a tongue weight well over 400 lbs, limiting the use of a 3500/350 rated tow vehicle. It is relatively easy to keep the tongue weight of an Escape 17B under 350 lbs.

Many complain about using rivets to attach cabinets, curtain rods, etc. Then again, there are those that are fine with the idea.

I strongly suggest looking at at least one or two examples of any brand trailer you are considering before actively searching to purchase one. While rallies are the best way to do this since there are usually many examples available, most manufacturers can supply you with the name & phone number of purchasers of their products in your area that are willing to show their trailers.

One last suggestion - While I did lots of research and settled on an Escape trailer so you can see my results, you might want to spend some time on the other fiberglass forums where owners of other brands hang out. Rather than list them here, I have a web page dedicated to fiberglass trailers that includes links to manufacturers, forums, and blogs that might be helpful.

I'm not trying to talk you out of an Escape, but asking to compare Escapes to Casitas or Scamps on an Escape forum probably will not get you the most unbiased opinions.

[holo]

The holding tanks have increased in capacity since we got our 2012 17B. This is a good change since the holding tank size is one of the main time-limiting factors when we are dry camping.

[Artlady]

Jon, as usual, you're a wealth of pertinent information. By your responses and your blogs, you've filled in a lot of the gaps for me. Thanks so much
Smaller issues aside, knowing about the insulation and thermal windows really helped. Not only from the heat/cold aspect, but also the issue of condensation. I wouldn't have known or anticipated that.
I'm so bummed....but better informed!

Holo, nice tip about the water issue. I do want the flexibility of boondocking if the situation arises. Carrying around too many or extra heavy containers just won't work for my situation.

You've all provided such "pearls" that although possibly searchable, were timely and thoughtful.
Again, much appreciated!
Ok...back to the drawing board! Gotta continue to research, learn, and search!
SO much!

[Artlady]

Real Quick here, Jon.
I spent an hour looking through your travel blogs and never ending list of links, buying an RV, and many many links dedicated to helping the newbie. A million thanks again.
Your blog is a treasure trove, and I highly recommend it! Love your accounts of your travels, too...a lifetime of wonderful family memories. Wow!
Big hugs! and

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Artlady

One much older trailer I am considering (pre-2007) doesn't have the thermal windows or insulation underneath. Are these things that can be retrofitted at this point?

This is not entirely an old-versus-new issue, as even a 2015 Escape will not have either thermal windows or insulation underneath if those options were not ordered.

The under-floor insulation is just sprayed on, and I have not heard of any other aspect of the trailer's configuration which is changed to accommodate it. I don't know of any reason why it could not be added later, quite reasonably as long as you can get the trailer up on a lift for access.

The windows can always be removed - this is necessary to allow maintenance and repair. The only issue I see with changing them later is the very substantial cost of a whole new set of windows. Remember that the option pricing for "thermal" windows is just covering the difference in the cost of the windows themselves between single-pane and double-pane (or "thermal), but when you replace them you have the entire cost of the thermal windows, plus removal labour, plus installation labour, plus some supplies (sealant).

[Artlady]

Hi Brian, ok...good points and elucidation.
So, there IS insulation within the walls of older models, but perhaps just not the undercarriage?
From my attempts at searches, I thought that any, as well as "extra" insulation was a later development.

Regarding my search of older "solds " (early Escape models), hardly a mention was made about insulation. Ditto for the ones I was considering buying; they don't have it. It just seems that most newer models have at least the undercarriage insulation, if not thicker insulation in the walls(?). Just my observation.

This is something I'll have to clarify with ETI. It could be a model year development, both in the standard production, as well as an option.
There also may have been subtleties in the thickness, type of material, etc.
this is just something I personally can't compromise on.

Yes, Jon also pointed out the after-market possibility of adding thermal windows. As you both know, the labour can add up!
It wouldn't be such an issue, except that the sellers of these older trailers may have to realize that their selling price may have to reflect this very big difference in their trailer vs. newer models. Right now, they're trying to compare apples to apples, when it clearly is not the case.

From what I can see, the extra insulation trend along with thermal windows has only grown over the years to a " must have". Both for comfort, as well as maintenance.
Again, I'll check it out further.
Thanks so much for your addition and comment! Appreciated, as always!