Escape + Kids - 17A vs. 19

[yardsale]

leosapples,

Be advised the Escape 17 and 19 are not really winter( in ski country) capable if you want to use the water systems. The discharge pipes are outside the heated space and even 100% pink antifreeze will turn into a slurry sufficiently viscous that it will not flow in the pipe. You will not be able to dump even if you can keep the fresh water system (entirely within the heated space) functioning properly. One option we have been considering is to install a skirt and keep that space heated with a space heater.

In addition to other brands mentioned, look at Lance trailers for winter capability.

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

And a pump and all associated plumbing presumably, so the only part you omitted is the gray tank? Water heater?

Yes, a pump, no gray-water tank, no water heater.

[Greg A]

When we bought our first Scamp 13 with two toddlers, it worked ok, but we really regretted not getting the 16.
Next, Escape 17b with the same two kiddos but in middle school, it worked ok, but wished we had the 19.
Now we have the 19, the kiddos are in HS and it works fine, but now we’re ready for them to head to college soon and we’ll have the 19 to ourselves.
If there is no financial hardship, I’d get the 19....

[dfandrews]

Joshua,
We have had a 17A for over two years, after the familiar progression of ground camping, tent camping, tent camping w/2 tents--one for us and one for our 3 boys, tent-trailer, and now our 17A. Since the boys are adults, there's usually just the 2 of us with the 17A.
Facts about the 17A (Typical for A-models, such as Karen H.'s 15A):
The 17A has a 20 gal. fresh water tank, and no grey or black tank.
The kitchen sink drains to a hose-treaded connection on the exterior, then to a bucket, in our case it's a 5 gal. (ex)paint bucket with lid (because many campground requirements include the requirement for a lid/sealed container).
We have cold water only. Hot water for all uses is heated on the stove, or outside on a camp stove or campfire.
The rear 4 person dinette makes up into a two-person bed.
On the 17A, the front is a full-time queen (approx.size) bed w/8" mattress.
Under the bed is storage for large flat things like camp chairs. On the right side of the storage is a cabinet to store the porta-potty. We have it on a wood base w/furniture glides underneath for ease of sliding out for use.
We typically slide it out at night, and park it in front of the door. Daytime, we're out and about, so the porta-potty is in its cabinet. For the occasional times when there's more than 2 of us, we have a 4 ft. square "shower" tent, that's set up right outside, with the porta-potty within. (Gets cold out there, though!).

We like the 17A, because it allows us to get into camping spots that longer rigs cannot negotiate. We use Forest Service campgrounds and dispersed sites a lot (puts us next to the best fishing!).
We have foam insulation underneath, and thermal windows, and have comfortably camped in snowy weather in the mountains of California (up to 9000 ft. @ 15°) and Arizona (up to 5000 ft. @ 20°). The furnace does an outstanding job. An alternative we've used, in those wonderful AZ State Parks that have electric power, is to bring along a space heater, to save on propane.
Our opinion is that the fresh water tank, being under the dining floor in the heated trailer, and above a couple inches of foam insulation on the exterior, will prevent freezing in any weather we're comfortable camping in.

We have been very comfortable in our 17A. As a guess based on our past experiences when camping, if we had the 17A when the boys were kids, it would have worked fine when they were little, and as they approached 10-12 yrs., we would probably gotten a separate tent for them, like we did when we tent camped. In inclement weather, you can sleep 4 adults, and you should query ETI regarding the option of Gaucho bunks, and their weight capacity, for additional capacity.

Here are some past threads we've posted about the 17A:
Thread evaluating our choices:
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f7...ater-8933.html

Photos:
Escape Trailer Owners Community - dfandrews's Album: 17A Final Build Photos

Edit: Hot water is an available option: Ask ETI detailed questions about what all the required items are, because when we added hot water as an option, the person handling our build sheet options was not familiar with A-model standard features vs. options, and so, Tammy contacted us and said that there were 2 parts to the hot water system, it would cost a lot more, and we then turned down the hot water option.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by KarenH

Not if you don't have a gray-water tank. I just have an outside hose that drains the sink into a bucket. Some of us who come from a backpacking and/or tenting background just plain don't want or need all the extra plumbing and don't mind walking to and using campground facilities.

True. Thanks for clarifying. Didn’t realize the gray tank and HW heater were optional on the 17A.

[leosapples]

Wow, I forgot about this for a few days and just checked the thread. MANY thanks to all of you that weighed in with great details and personal advice. I read through the thread with some indecision, but my wife interpreted the advice much more clearly: apparently we are in for a 19 with bath.

My plan for winter camping was to go dry with water in a jerry-can to avoid any freezing issues - there is actually a widespread winter RV culture at lots of the ski areas in the NW.

And...skiing with two kids - easy enough with two parents! One of us hangs with the baby and the other goes and shreds with the toddler! Even better with lots of families!

[Wunfiddy]

Keep this debate coming.

Id personally love a 17a vs the 19, but its a very expensive purchase either way, and I know my wife will not allow us to spend this kind of money without a bathroom on board. 17B gains the bathroom, but loses a bunch of space really. Maybe my tune will change when I am 55, or when I have to get up to bring future child to the camp outhouses or bathrooms repeatedly in the wee hours.

I too do not want to deal with grey and black tanks. We have no children currently, but plan on one.

We went from tenting and my ranger, to towing a 10 foot pop up with my WJ jeep, then the 10 foot with storage and the f150. At the price point things are getting, I'm almost tempted to go back to tenting. Still have the lanterns and sleeping pads, coolers, etc.

[ReagentGrade]

Originally Posted by Wunfiddy

I too do not want to deal with grey and black tanks. We have no children currently, but plan on one.

Jon,
IMO dumping the tanks is no big deal IF you have a good hose. The ETI supplied hose is the one thing I consider sub standard. The Rhino hose I bought is very nice. It's one of many after-market hose options which make dumping tanks a breeze.
I think having a bathroom is priceless. I'm currently at my nephew's house installing some upgrades. The tanks are empty in case we need to winterize. When I need to go, I have to run into the house. I'm spoiled and consider this to be a pain in the neck. I'm also one of those who prefer showering in my tiny bathroom to trudging across a campground in the cold.
If it were me, I'd choose a used Escape with a bathroom over a new Escape without a bathroom.
Just my opinion, YMMV.
Rich

[thoer]

Like Rich, dumping the waste tank is something that does not bother either of us at all.

I supposed living with a septic tank and field, and needing to pull out and clean the plastic tank filter a couple times a year makes dumping the trailer seem a breeze!

[Jim Bennett]

Dumping tanks is no big deal for me, other than the hassle of waiting in line in many cases, but that is one of the costs of boondocking. It sure is nice at our land where it is quick and easy in the hay field, with no hoses needed.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by Wunfiddy

Keep this debate coming.

Id personally love a 17a vs the 19, but its a very expensive purchase either way, and I know my wife will not allow us to spend this kind of money without a bathroom on board. 17B gains the bathroom, but loses a bunch of space really. Maybe my tune will change when I am 55, or when I have to get up to bring future child to the camp outhouses or bathrooms repeatedly in the wee hours.

I too do not want to deal with grey and black tanks. We have no children currently, but plan on one.

We went from tenting and my ranger, to towing a 10 foot pop up with my WJ jeep, then the 10 foot with storage and the f150. At the price point things are getting, I'm almost tempted to go back to tenting. Still have the lanterns and sleeping pads, coolers, etc.

After having experienced the convenience of a bathroom in my 19 and 15B, I would never choose to buy a trailer without a bathroom. I think my wife would feel the same way.

Dumping tanks is a simple task and provided there are no lineups at the dump station (choose your time carefully) it only takes a few minutes to dump the tanks.

Go ahead and get your Escape, but don't get rid of your tent, as there is always the possibility that you may still use it after getting your Escape. Even though my trailer needs are well satisfied, I found that in 2017 I spent about 2 to 3 times as many nights sleeping in tents in the back-country as I spent sleeping in my Escapes. Will try to reverse that a bit for next year though.

[GnomeMobile]

I’m a seasoned backpacker/tent camper in the PNW. We have a toddler now and the flexibility to take longer trips. I am also interested in a travel trailer for the convenience of not packing everything every time we go, as well as extending the season. I initially was interested in an Escape 17a because of the compact floor plan, but have decided to go with a 19. Here are my considerations...

We have now started potty training and I can see that it’s nice to have a wee bit of floor space dedicated to a loo, particularly on rainy nights. But, if you don’t use it on weekend or summer trips, having a closet might be handy, at least for rain gear.
After a particularly long Prius boondocking road trip a few years ago, I realized that after about two weeks I became tired of finding my shoes in order to relieve myself in the middle if the night. I realized that my style of camping worked well for weekend trips, but I want to take longer trips and enjoy all four seasons.
Now, since trailers lengthen the camping season beyond tent camping, it’s good to recognize that the kids are only going to camp in the tent during warmer seasons.
As much as I admire the simplicity of the 17a, I think that the 19 is more practical for camping year round with kids who will get huge before they leave the nest.
We cosleep in a queen and the larger bed size is a nice feature too.
We plan on using ours for camping along the coast during the winter. I’m not sure how well they handle below freezing temps.
I’m more concerned about having enough clearance on forest roads and am debating the lift kit. Have you decided that?
Cheers!