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Old 07-16-2019, 11:22 PM   #1
BJC
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Frameless windows

I'm high centered on windows. I need current feedback on the frameless window...are you happy with them? Any downsides?
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:33 PM   #2
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I love the looks of the frameless windows but they don’t open very much...no where near as much as the escape awning window you will get on the passenger side rear.

If I was to order again, I would be getting the manual awning. The manual awning has vertical arms that when closed lay next to the side of the trailer and possibly over some of the windows depending on the model. The sliding windows can still be opened when the awning is closed.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJC View Post
I'm high centered on windows. I need current feedback on the frameless window...are you happy with them? Any downsides?
We have them in our 19. Happy enough to get them in the 5.0 TA we just ordered.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:38 AM   #4
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I have them and at this point I don't think I'd get them again provided escape offered a slider with "dual" panes. I don't think they are that well designed. When I look at the sealant applied between the two panes it just seems that it was applied in a sloppy manner by the manufacturer and the crank/arms mechanism just seems less robust than it should be. I tend to baby them when opening and closing because I'm leery over putting much stress on the components.

I have not experienced a delamination of the two panes like some others have but I did have one window replaced at ETI that leaked at the top hinge. The most persistent problem I have now is If I don't secure the crank knobs before hitting the road, most of mine will open from vibration aka the "self-opening option". A problem the manufacturer seemingly had to know about if they tested them at all.

I recently traveled over more than 100 miles of dirt roads and had a fair amount of dust come through my rear windows, although I had the same issue with sliders on my last RV so maybe that is just a universal issue.

I never inquired but I would have just preferred a fixed window in the rear or the cabover portion as I rarely open them and its mainly just to exercise the mechanism and allow the weatherstripping to decompress. It helps that we usually camp at cooler temps when keeping heat in is more of a concern.

All of that said, I do really like the frameless look on the exterior but I'm not so trailer vain as to get them again just for that reason.

FWIW I would also not get the automatic awning again either. It's too much hassle to babysit it for too much wind and rain. The manual awning wasn't an available option for us at the time.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:13 AM   #5
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Frameless windows are an improvement over the framed sliders, particularly if you camp when it is cold. Framed windows bring the cold inside via metal frames that form frost on the inside. then the heat inside will cause dripping. If you do not camp when it is cold then you may not have this issue. The look sleeker and all the newer trailer have them. Just like thermal windows replacing storm windows in the residential industry, so has the frameless to the framed windows. They open in the rain and with the opening rear you have openings on 3 sides, something framed can not offer.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:21 AM   #6
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We really like the frameless windows, being able to have them open in the rain was an absolute requirement for us. We go off hiking and like to leave windows open for our cats and couldn't do that with the sliders in case a rain storm came up while we were gone. We haven't camped yet in very cold weather but expect that the dual panes will be a big improvement over our old trailer with single panes and lots of condensation.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:39 AM   #7
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We’ve owned and used both window types on our two Escapes, and would choose frameless again every time. Less thermal transmission and condensation, usable in all weather conditions, opening rear window, superior aesthetics. We’ve never experienced the self-opening issue that some report, but we did have delamination failure of one small window, a known manufacturing defect from the window manufacturer that was fixed under warranty by ETI.

The main advantage of framed windows is no interference with the arms of a manual awning, should you opt for the manual awning. We’ve also had both manual and electric awnings and would choose the electric again, but that’s a different discussion
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:50 AM   #8
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Frameless

We have the frameless windows in 2017 5.0 TA. On one window the seal has failed and it was noticed after the one year warranty had expired. So think about that one year warranty. On the fiberglassrv forum folks are dragging 35 year old Bolers out of the bushes and restoring them including the old windows. New seals and maybe a new crank and the windows are good to go. You don’t repair a new frameless, you replace it with another one with the same inherent weaknesses.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:58 AM   #9
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from us on the framless windows. In combination with the roof Maxxfan, a nice comfortable interior breeze is a quick nob turn and button press away.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #10
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We have the frameless windows with the manual awning. We received the trailer last summer and used it, stored it under cover in the winter, then just this past trip, discovered that the emergency window in the back dinette was leaking water from the top hinge. We took it back to Escape as it was still under warranty. They informed us that they now put rain guards on the tops of all of the frameless windows and that this should fix the problem and they did it no charge to all of our windows. We like that the frameless windows can be open in the rain.

We had the problem initially with them opening while driving, and Tammy said we probably were not shutting them tightly enough. Since we have shut them tighter, they do not open, and we have not had any issues with delaminating. It was my understanding when we got our trailer that it was remedied by the manufacturer with the newer windows that were being installed.

With the frameless windows, the rear two windows open, while the rear framed window does not. With the arms of the manual awning, the bathroom window can still open with the awning in the closed position, it is only the one rear dinette in the 21s that does not open when the awning is closed, but you instead are able to open the rear windows.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:39 PM   #11
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Yes, which window is impacted by the manual awning varies with which Escape model is in use....
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:26 PM   #12
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My understanding was closing too tightly was being associated as part of the delamination problem and but maybe now not tightening enough is the self opening issue. If I have to find the sweet spot with just the right amount of tension to prevent delamination but so they don’t open going down the road, then that’s bad engineering by Hehr.

I am completely confident I close mine tightly but I still have to secure the crank out knob to prevent them from opening. The problem is in the design and how the inner and outer pane sit against their respective seal when cranked in. The closing mechanism is mounted to the inner pane so if the outer pan tightens against its seal before adequate pressure is applied to the inner pane seal, the knob doesn’t have much tension. I’d be very leery of trying to crank more when the knob stops and the window is tight on the outer seal.

I do agree that they are very nice in the rain and I have the rubber rain deflectors over mine also.

To be clear, I don’t completely regret getting them, But I would not opt (and pay extra) to get them again.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:52 PM   #13
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I cut a piece of 2" foam pipe covering, maybe 1" thick for each knob and had no issues coming home with them opening. That may help and eliminate further tightening.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:07 PM   #14
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It may work Jim, but it's a band-aid, not a fix.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
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It may work Jim, but it's a band-aid, not a fix.
We had one window (over the sink) jiggle open a bit on our first trip home so (thanks to this forum) I tried the foam behind each knob after that. However, I have not used those foam pieces on the knobs for the past couple trips and no windows have jiggled open since. I think those foam pieces were a nice 'band-aid' (more for me) in the initial phase to help me figure out how tight to tighten the knobs. Before take-offs and after landings, I also put my hand on every component (including the bottom of every window) to make sure all is well. So far so good.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:21 PM   #16
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One cured, band aids are no longer needed......
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:35 PM   #17
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We like the frameless windows for two reasons -aesthetics and that they can be open in rainy weather for ventilation
We’ve had two minor problems 1) The kitchen window would jiggle itself open when traveling
and a mechanical issue with one of the rear windows
The kitchen window was an easy fix , the back window still needs a little work .
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:29 PM   #18
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I've had both windows i like the frame less better ventilation in the rain!
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:14 PM   #19
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I'm annoyed that the frameless will open while traveling and have also resorted to the pool noodle fix.

It sure was nice a few weeks ago though, when we had pouring rain overnight with all the windows open and no rain on the inside!
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:53 PM   #20
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After many years of framed windows and now having the frameless on the new trailer, I would not really want to go back. The framed silders do work quite good. The reasons I prefer the frameless is they look much better, are a lot easier to operate, can be used better in the rain, and ventilate well especially with the Maxxfan.


I did have the bath window split on my like some others did. No big deal, sent Escape a message about it and got a new one supplied for free. About 10 minutes to exchange. Nice.
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