Got My Build Sheet -- Escape 19! HELP!

[JohnB]

Propane Quick Connect - I believe the 19 comes with dual propane. Why not use one of the bottles for your BBQ and stove. Simply remove one to where you want to set up, connect with a tee and 2 hoses and run them both from the tank. No long hoses coming from the quick connect to get in your way. Or connect from tank without removing one and set up next to it which would be similar to using the quick connect but get full propane pressure if that is required to operate the BBQ and stove. (asssumes that both tanks have propane in them so fridge etc. can continue to operate when one tank is removed)

[cpaharley2008]

You don't say where Whitehorse is, but I'm assuming in NT or way up north. That said, I would definitely get the spray foam and tank heaters, thermal windows and extra insulation. I'd definitely get the removable power cord as they are more easy to handle in colder weather. Solar and dual 6 volts and ask Reace for dual 30 lb tanks for larger capacity. Get the LED light package but drop the a/c, inverter, and opening windows in bath and kitchen. Ask Reace to install the window that fits the door in the bathroom, it is double paned and will also give you light. Also get a double paned, non opening window in kitchen but get the exhaust hood for ventilation.
Definitely on the front box unless the 30 lb tanks prevent that. The rear bike rack means adding another set of brake lights, so I'd drop that as well as the exterior propane hookup and go with the disposable tanks, that way you can monitor your propane, Definite oven option, but skip the cover as oven includes cover and get 2-3 extra 12v outlets at dinette and bed for 12v blankets. Not sure if you can get tv up there so I'd go with dvd and movies and skip tv ready. Skip outside shower, another hole that lets cold air inside.
I base my decisions on my use of my 2012 Escape 19 last winter. As long as you have electric or sunshine you can camp down to at least -0-(F) the electric to keep your water hose heated and keep your tanks heated, otherwise solar will get you thru but you will have to turn off your tank heaters. I'm awaiting my 21' Escape currently.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by bpjod

We're going through our build sheet too right now for Spring delivery of our Escape 21 and so many of these comments are really helpful; even after hours of scouring the forums. Thank you all so much for your sage advice and sharing your real world experiences.

Burloak, what you said about the double pane windows makes so much sense, yet I hadn't thought of it before. You've just saved me a bundle. Thanks!

What I'm wrestling most with now are:
1) Spray foam insulation under the trailer: think spring/fall camping in the Alberta Rockies--would it be a big benefit?

2) Power inverter: I'm leaning towards trying to live without it. I think the 12V outlets would be sufficient for our needs. If I go this route, is it easy to add later?

3) Propane quick connect: I'd like to have BOTH a propane Coleman stove as well as our Weber Q120 grill hooked up to this. Is that possible? If they can't be rigged up so that they're both hooked up at the same time, maybe I'll just get a 10 lb tank and hook them both up to that. The extra tank would be a hassle, but there would be greater flexibility in the location of our cooking station.

I added a 1000 watt inverter after the build. While I didn't find it difficult, I am an electrician. I'm also the type of person that can't leave well enough alone. I have a web page with the changes and additions I've done over the last two years...

The most involved part is changing the battery cables over to wiring large enough for the inverter. In my case that was #0 wire.

As to the propane quick connect, I believe it is tapped after the regulator, so you will either need to purchase a low pressure grill and stove, or convert what you have.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Propane Quick Connect - I believe the 19 comes with dual propane. Why not use one of the bottles for your BBQ and stove. Simply remove one to where you want to set up, connect with a tee and 2 hoses and run them both from the tank. No long hoses coming from the quick connect to get in your way. Or connect from tank without removing one and set up next to it which would be similar to using the quick connect but get full propane pressure if that is required to operate the BBQ and stove. (asssumes that both tanks have propane in them so fridge etc. can continue to operate when one tank is removed)

To remove and use one of the bottles would simply be way too much trouble, IMO. A few people mention the hoses being an issue. I have tapped off the bottles in place like you also suggest (and is a way better solution) for 20 years or more now, and have never had an issue with the hose. I do try to run it under the mat if possible, but they lay tight to the ground and you really would have to do a slewfoot move to hook one. The low pressure connection is just one step better than the direct connection to the bottles.

[MyronL]

I have been using this 400 watt inverter in my car for years. Think it cost me $28bucks at AutoZone but I forget. Seems to me to be a good enough fit.

I drink a lot of coffee. OK, what if I decide not to boil water on the stove for my French Press and instead want to use a 12-cup Mister Coffee?

[Burloak]

Originally Posted by bpjod

We're going through our build sheet too right now for Spring delivery of our Escape 21 and so many of these comments are really helpful; even after hours of scouring the forums. Thank you all so much for your sage advice and sharing your real world experiences.

Burloak, what you said about the double pane windows makes so much sense, yet I hadn't thought of it before. You've just saved me a bundle. Thanks!

What I'm wrestling most with now are:
1) Spray foam insulation under the trailer: think spring/fall camping in the Alberta Rockies--would it be a big benefit?

2) Power inverter: I'm leaning towards trying to live without it. I think the 12V outlets would be sufficient for our needs. If I go this route, is it easy to add later?

3) Propane quick connect: I'd like to have BOTH a propane Coleman stove as well as our Weber Q120 grill hooked up to this. Is that possible? If they can't be rigged up so that they're both hooked up at the same time, maybe I'll just get a 10 lb tank and hook them both up to that. The extra tank would be a hassle, but there would be greater flexibility in the location of our cooking station.

1. I started camping this year on the Easter weekend late March at Tunnel Mountain II campground in Banff National Park (winterized) and the year before in early April in Whistler (non winterized). I haven't seen a need yet for the foam insulation.. One of my problems with the foam would be the hindered access to mechanicals/electricals under the trailer. If something goes awry down there I like to be able to quickly visually access the issue without first having to try to guess what area of the insulation to cut out and chasing the problem. In addition potential heat transfer in structures is greatest the through roofs/ceilings then walls finally floors thats why building codes specify more insulation in those areas then floors.

2. I don't have the a built in inverter.. so no toaster/coffee maker (while boon docking) I do have a 150 watt portable FANLESS inverter for the 12v outlets to power my TV/Blueray player and intermittently charge cell phones and laptops.

3. I do have the side trailer Low pressure propane disconnect and run my Q100 BBQ and a Campfire in a Can off of it. Each has its own 10ft hose and male connector and I love the convenience. Coleman stoves operate at a specific to coleman higher pressure and would not be usable on that outlet as they are designed to stay lit even while open in a breeze.. the Q's BBQ's don't have that problem as they are designed to cook closed.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by MyronL

I have been using this 400 watt inverter in my car for years. Think it cost me $28bucks at AutoZone but I forget. Seems to me to be a good enough fit.

I drink a lot of coffee. OK, what if I decide not to boil water on the stove for my French Press and instead want to use a 12-cup Mister Coffee?

I use a Black and Decker 5 cup coffee maker that is rated at 600 watts that I use to make a single mug of morning coffee. Running it on my 1000 watt sine wave inverter draws 60 amps @ 12v for 10 minutes. If you want to do the same, you are going to need a bigger inverter & wiring. I have the stock solar system from Escape, along with dual 6v batteries - along with all the other stuff I run, I'm usually back to full batteries by the end of the day; often by noon.

[cpaharley2008]

I haven't seen a need yet for the foam insulation.. One of my problems with the foam would be the hindered access to mechanicals/electricals under the trailer. If something goes awry down there I like to be able to quickly visually access the issue without first having to try to guess what area of the insulation to cut out and chasing the problem. In addition potential heat transfer in structures is greatest the through roofs/ceilings then walls finally floors thats why building codes specify more insulation in those areas then floors.

There really is no electrical nor mechanical issues outside your shell, the only wires are the sensors attached to the tanks. True you lose your heat thru the roof, but a trailer with a warm floor feels warmer. The building codes for homes assume your floors are not exposed to cold as they are in a trailer. Having had it both ways, I can tell you the trailer is warmer with the foam.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by MyronL

OK, what if I decide not to boil water on the stove for my French Press and instead want to use a 12-cup Mister Coffee?

Then you will be deciding to make a lesser cup of coffee, and go to a whole bunch of trouble to do so.

Seriously though, there are many ways of making coffee that only need boiled water, that produce a way better cup than 99% of electric drippers. Why not just keep it simple.

I love the morning routine of manually grinding my own beans. It takes about 4 minutes to have enough fresh grounds to do 3 cups, a process I often repeat twice in the morning. The water is easily hot by then, and I can immediately begin the extraction, they sit back and enjoy. Mmmmmmm......

I must admit I am a little distracted by the smell of freshly roasted Burundi coffee that I just did up in the garage next to my office. Mmmmmmm.......

[MyronL]

"...you are going to need a bigger inverter & wiring. "

Thanks, Jon, I suspected as much (nuts!) - needed to confirm. Roger that, Jim, ----Will stick to boiling water on stove.

Just left Ace Hardware with this Melita 10-cup pour-over coffee maker. I'll get those last full drops of flavor by pressing grounds down with a big old spoon. What is strange is... here I am in cowboy country and no where can I find a simple, old fashioned cowboy coffee pot.

[Burloak]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I haven't seen a need yet for the foam insulation.. One of my problems with the foam would be the hindered access to mechanicals/electricals under the trailer. If something goes awry down there I like to be able to quickly visually access the issue without first having to try to guess what area of the insulation to cut out and chasing the problem. In addition potential heat transfer in structures is greatest the through roofs/ceilings then walls finally floors thats why building codes specify more insulation in those areas then floors.

There really is no electrical nor mechanical issues outside your shell, the only wires are the sensors attached to the tanks. True you lose your heat thru the roof, but a trailer with a warm floor feels warmer. The building codes for homes assume your floors are not exposed to cold as they are in a trailer. Having had it both ways, I can tell you the trailer is warmer with the foam.

Im agreeing with you on the feeling of warmth but I'm a mechanical engineer so pipes and tanks fall under my purview. There are still some critical and relatively easily damaged (by weather and road hazards) critical systems below the building envelope. This camper puts on his handmade wool socks when my tootsies are a little chilly.

[kstock11]

When I use my Melita, I pour water & coffee in a separate container. Mix, allow to sit for a few minutes. Mix one more time and then pour through filter. Many of the advantages of a press, but easy clean up.

[cpaharley2008]

"Im agreeing with you on the feeling of warmth but I'm a mechanical engineer so pipes and tanks fall under my purview. There are still some critical and relatively easily damaged (by weather and road hazards) critical systems below the building envelope.."
Exactly, that is why protecting them with 2" foam helps!!

[Burloak]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

"Im agreeing with you on the feeling of warmth but I'm a mechanical engineer so pipes and tanks fall under my purview. There are still some critical and relatively easily damaged (by weather and road hazards) critical systems below the building envelope.."
Exactly, that is why protecting them with 2" foam helps!!

Hmm.. 12/120v tank/pipe heating heating pads will definitely help with the weather issues.. Im considering adding some version of those myself to extend my (non winterized) camping season.

But 2" of closed cell foam isn't going to protect low hanging mechanical structures no matter what speed a 3000# vehicle is travelling. I just like dealing with the aftermath of those types of issues as simply/quickly as possible without the foam in the way.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by Burloak

But 2" of closed cell foam isn't going to protect low hanging mechanical structures no matter what speed a 3000# vehicle is travelling. I just like dealing with the aftermath of those types of issues as simply/quickly as possible without the foam in the way.

I have the foam and it is not "low hanging" at all, and has no impact on ground clearance. Would be useful to look at it if you have not seen one. To me it was a good choice with insulating and sound deadening benefits. Others may see things their own way.

[Burloak]

Originally Posted by ice-breaker

I have the foam and it is not "low hanging" at all, and has no impact on ground clearance. Would be useful to look at it if you have not seen one. To me it was a good choice with insulating and sound deadening benefits. Others may see things their own way.

I have seen it (been to the factory twice) and again agree that it can make your trailer relatively warmer/cooler and quieter.

Im referring to the PLASTIC mechanical structures (tanks and pipes) exterior (lower) to the steel frame of the vehicle. All of that is low hanging and extremely vulnerable in a moving vehicle and will have be repaired.. more easily done without the whole bottom of the vehicle covered in very adhesive foam.

Im not sure of the road hazards where you drive but in my 44 years behind the wheel Ive struck exhaust pipes, large rocks, frozen blocks of ice falling off of a transport truck trailer, and various animals small and large all of which damaged the car I was driving requiring repair. In my case I just want to keep the inevitable remediation as simple as possible.

[fudge_brownie]

I can see if you live in Canmore you will have more animals, large and small. It's the stinky ones that really get you.

Good point on undercoating. From a sound perspective I have an uninsulated Escape and I find the noise from the outside is already minimized. Now if I lived in Canmore I would want insulation, not undercoating.

How about carrying bales of straw to put around the outside of the trailer? Here in Wisconsin this is common, the downside is you usually end up with a bumper crop of mice.

[BRietkerk]

Keep in mind that standard items can also be removed for credit.
We do not have a stove hood fan and our experience is it is not needed.
The opening window in the washroom was not offered at the time of our purchase. In hindsight we would have deleted the roof vent in favour of an opening window. We are blowing out pine needles etc. from the screen in the roof vent regularly. Penetrating the roof makes little sense to me if you have a window. The roof vent will be the first to deteriorate from UV and can be subject to damage if you forget to close it underway.

[Burloak]

Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

I can see if you live in Canmore you will have more animals, large and small. It's the stinky ones that really get you.

Good point on undercoating. From a sound perspective I have an uninsulated Escape and I find the noise from the outside is already minimized. Now if I lived in Canmore I would want insulation, not undercoating.

How about carrying bales of straw to put around the outside of the trailer? Here in Wisconsin this is common, the downside is you usually end up with a bumper crop of mice.

LOL.. I move around.. a lot. My biggest interaction with an animal was in the finger lakes district of NY a few miles outside of Ithica. Large buck white tailed deer at dusk which ended up going under my Cavalier. Car was a write-off.. I had to leave town back to Ontario with only my plates and a police report in a very complicated two country one way rental :-(

Beware the mice! make sure the trailer is absolutely as cold as possible during storage (and that the storage site has LOTS of nasty rat/mice poison liberally applied :-)

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by BRietkerk

Keep in mind that standard items can also be removed for credit.
We do not have a stove hood fan and our experience is it is not needed.
The opening window in the washroom was not offered at the time of our purchase. In hindsight we would have deleted the roof vent in favour of an opening window. We are blowing out pine needles etc. from the screen in the roof vent regularly. Penetrating the roof makes little sense to me if you have a window. The roof vent will be the first to deteriorate from UV and can be subject to damage if you forget to close it underway.

you always need a intake and an exhaust for a static ventilation system to function properly. A sole window will need an exhaust, your MaxxFan will help, if you want that moisture in your unit.