Insulation/thermal windows

[Marry]

Originally Posted by thoer

The reason many of us are now repeat customers, is that we trust Reace both to design and build a quality product, and to stand behind his product if any problems do arise.

Now this is not about windows, but just to let you all know how ETI, Reace and Tammy work.
Last summer we picked up our spanking new trailer, went through the full orientation. Even the awning got opened. But inside.... On the way home, the first few campgrounds in the trees, we did not open the awning. Only close to home, on the prairies, we opened the awning. Sun shining bright. To our surprise we see a little defect in the fabric, 5 inches long and not wider then an inch. Just a little defect in the weaving. At home I contacted Tammy, and to my surprise she asks for a picture of the fabric and its defect. Even on the picture you need to look more then twice to see it. My second surprise came when, after a week, ETI phones back, asking if we wanted to replace the awning fabric here at a dealership or if we could come to Chilliwalk to get it replaced.
Now that I call service!!!
That is what makes us all love and trust ETI. Also with the new frameless windows.
(we are heading out there just before Osoyoos. gave me a perfect excuse to attend the gathering)

[David H]

Originally Posted by freespirit

does anyone know if HEHR specifically approved of the Escape single hull frameless window design for the window and does HEHR know anything about a frameless window in a single hull fiberglass molded trailer if no one has made one yet except Escape for a few months?

Maybe you should email Escape and HEHR with your information request. Don't believe any of our forum members would be privy to such information.

[Jim Bennett]

Calling these new windows "frameless" is not truly accurate. They do have a frame, just not one you see from the outside, as the outermost layer of glass overlaps it.

[Greg A]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Calling these new windows "frameless" is not truly accurate. They do have a frame, just not one you see from the outside, as the outermost layer of glass overlaps it.

Good point, Jim. I also recall seeing in the 2017 manufacturing pics that they seemed to be adding addl wood framing around the window openings which may be related to beefing up for installing this type of window.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Greg A

Good point, Jim. I also recall seeing in the 2017 manufacturing pics that they seemed to be adding addl wood framing around the window openings which may be related to beefing up for installing this type of window.

Not only does the wood strengthen the opening, it adds the thickness required to install and attach the windows.

Myself, I am stoked to get these windows, from an operational standpoint and the fact they look way cool. [emoji41]

[Jim Bennett]

Another plus of these windows should be the seal. I install 100's of windows every year, and the awning style seals way better than a slider, as they close on a bulb deal, as opposed to a brush type seal.

[Dave Walter]

Seems kind of humorous to me to get super worked up over some self manufactured issue with the awning windows. Get the awning windows with your new Escape, go camping and enjoy yourselves. If for some reason the windows don't perform in a satisfactory manner, fix the issue at that time. If you are still unhappy after the fix, sell the trailer. If the "sky is falling" self manufactured issue with the windows is too much to live with prior to your purchase, just back out of the deal and buy somewhere else.

For the record, I was initially unimpressed with the awning windows, but that dislike would not be sufficient to sway me from choosing another Escape with those windows if I was to buy another, maybe the 5.0TA.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by ice-breaker

..... if I was to buy another, maybe the 5.0TA.

Working out build sheet details, are we?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by freespirit

the question was ...does anybody know a mfg other than Escape that uses a frameless window in a SINGLE HULL Molded fiberglass trailer?
this is not about the HEHR window ..but about its application in this type trailer..its about trailer window framing design and its effect on frameless window glass seal type over time...
it appears Escape is the 1st and thus may be the lab rat trailer....may be good over time and may not...who knows!

Granted these are very, very high end with robust design engineering, but Kimberley in Australia has been using frameless windows on their single hull fiberglass caravans for years:
Kimberleykruiser - Unique Features of Kimberley Kruiser

It is interesting to note that these open up fully, which if this could be implemented on the Escape would completely negate the airflow concern that I see some forum members speculating about.

Also regarding Airstream, they have acquired Nest which are using frameless windows on their new single hull fiberglass trailer:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4puCkObHZik

Regardless of what these other manufacturers are or are not doing you can bet that Reace has taken the time to engineer the new molds adequately and has worked with the window manufacturer regarding proper mounting.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Another plus of these windows should be the seal. I install 100's of windows every year, and the awning style seals way better than a slider, as they close on a bulb deal, as opposed to a brush type seal.

Similar to casement windows sealing better than double hung, the seal is better on them.

[Kountrykamper]

Originally Posted by freespirit

a major reason did not move delivery up when given the chance...

Thank You for not moving up your build date and letting us move up. While out camping this year we will test the windows and let you know how they are working. I am happy to get away from the sliders.

[rbrandenstein]

We were in Chilliwack just after Christmas to visit the factory and finalize our many questions for the build sheet. The window question was high on our list and we discussed with Tammi.

They removed the thermal slider option because there was insufficient demand. The frameless looked better and offered an opening rear window, so most went with that.

In addition, the frameless windows do not have the aluminum frame which will condense frost or water depending on thermal conditions. There is less dripping and wiping up to do. You also get better sound proofing, but that is a function of the whole package.

I didn't ask the question, but I believe they must add extra "stuff" to the shell for this option, as Jim mentioned. The build sheet makes a strong point they cannot be added aftermarket.

Needless to say, we opted for the frameless window option.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

...
Also regarding Airstream, they have acquired Nest which are using frameless windows on their new single hull fiberglass trailer:

The Nest body is a single hull, but that hull is a thick cored composite, which is much stiffer than fiberglass without core material. Escape started with no core material (so perhaps 1/8" of glass and resin everywhere), but now addes core material is selected areas only (so glass inner and outer layers sandwiching core material).

The Nest is only a prototype. It's anyone's guess what will actually be produced; we'll see when it appears, perhaps this year. At least Kimberley has a line of real trailers, although not with Hehr windows; they don't even look like glass - they appear to be moulded acrylic.

Kimberley uses several materials in their trailers, and some panels are certainly fiberglass; however, their caravans are not moulded fiberglass structures and the windows featured in the photos are not installed in a fiberglass panel. According to Kimberley they are in an aluminum-framed structure:

Rolled RHS window frames in alloy tube. The shape and rolling process eliminates the need for any other frame incorporated into the windows itself.

(This page shows the structure, which goes well beyond the windows.)

Also, these windows are apparently not Hehr and according to Kimberley as manufactured they do not seal adequately for their purpose:

The Kimberley windows have the seal integrated in the outaide of the wall frame so that the window panels close directly on the seals. The seals are especially made for us as the european seals that came with the windows had a small sealing bulb which just does not work off road in Australia.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbrandenstein

...
In addition, the frameless windows do not have the aluminum frame which will condense frost or water depending on thermal conditions.

Well, they do certainly have an aluminum frame, installed in the wall just like the old windows; however, it is mostly covered on the exterior side by the glass and seal (when closed). That should certainly reduce heat conduction.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The Nest body is a single hull, but that hull is a thick cored composite, which is much stiffer than fiberglass without core material. Escape started with no core material (so perhaps 1/8" of glass and resin everywhere), but now adds core material is selected areas only (so glass inner and outer layers sandwiching core material).

Brian, I knew I could count on you to dig into the finer details. Always intrigued with your boundless knowledge and relentless pursuit of the facts. Waiting to hear when you are designing your own trailer.

You are correct that these examples (Nest and Kimberley) may not be identical to the Escape shell design (and I am incorrect for implying that), but my main point was that "frameless" windows can be used in a variety of fiberglass /composite applications with proper design and construction. I think the concern of Escape being way out in front on this with a risky application is really unfounded. Let's be thankful that Escape is always pushing forward. Many here have experience with companies like Scamp, that seem to have very few design improvements over the years and still some of the same parts on their trailers as they did in the 70's.

[The Quilting Lady]

I talked to Erin today at ETI and she told me you could get the side to side windows in Thermal, so most likely that is what we will go with.

[float5]

Originally Posted by The Quilting Lady

I talked to Erin today at ETI and she told me you could get the side to side windows in Thermal, so most likely that is what we will go with.

Good. Can't always be sure of the answers people are getting so have to keep asking. I was miffed that they would get rid of that. Glad to hear that they still have it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

... my main point was that "frameless" windows can be used in a variety of fiberglass /composite applications with proper design and construction.

I agree. Escape's use of Hehr "frameless" windows in a moulded non-cored fiberglass wall may be unique, but I'm sure Reace is doing what is required to make it work.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by The Quilting Lady

I talked to Erin today at ETI and she told me you could get the side to side windows in Thermal, so most likely that is what we will go with.

With or without the extra wall/ceiling insulation?

I note that there is currently no thermal window package offered on the Escape website's Options page other than "frame-less".

[The Quilting Lady]

I do believe she said with the extra insulation. You would think she knows, don't think I misunderstood. Maybe we should ask again or someone else, I was surprised when she told me they had them.