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Old 09-12-2016, 11:25 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I had the pads in my 19, only good with hook ups. With the foam and heat inside the 21 I have never had any issue without the pads.. If it is that cold where you need the tape, you will not be able to dump anywhere, so I'd only go with the foam. That is what I'm doing with Prairie Schooner.
Well I was curious about this….

and my wife and I have always wanted to winter camp in Colorado, so after a few phone calls, I found the Montrose CO KOA - 63 miles from Gunnison

They are open year round…. I just spoke with a nice lady named Jan there.

It DOES sometimes go down to 20 F during the days, and colder at night, for many days in a row….

and they DO keep some sites with sewer dumps and full hookups open all year.

They installed heat tape on the fresh water supply pipes underground to those sites.

She specifically recommended having heat pads on our tanks, and having heat tape on the grey + black outlets.

So it IS possible to winter camp, and have the need for heat pads and tape, in some situations, no?



Update - found another one - same town - in Montrose CO (so same weather as listed just above)
Cedar Creek RV Park
yes open year round
yes full hook up + sewer dumps open year round
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:35 AM   #42
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You can find at least one KOA per state open in the winter and 3 years ago we were in one in W. Va for Super Bowl weekend, it got down to 5 degrees. We had heated water supply at the post and I have a heated supply hose to use when the temperatures are that cold. I had no issue dumping at these temperatures. The comment about heat pads is universal and not Escape specific. Your black tank is inside and you are not using your fresh tank. The grey tank, used for sink waste is covered by foam. The cg had showers so we only had the black tank to empty as there was little grey waste. With the interior black tank there was no problem emptying without using tape, nor pads, just the foam and leaving the heat on inside both of which kept the black tank above freezing.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:40 AM   #43
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Winter camping in very cold weather with an Escape can be challenging, even with thermal windows, extra insulation, and spray foam on the underside of the trailer. Bring lots of propane, as your furnace is going to be running all of the time. Bring electric space heaters if you have services, but don't expect the electric to be enough by itself to keep you warm. Bring lots of blankets or cold weather sleeping bags. Be prepared to have lots of issues with condensation inside your Escape. I would winterize before I used the trailer in cold weather, and keep all fluids outside of the tanks and plumbing systems in your Escape. Use campground facilities! Sure beats having a mound of frozen material in your black tank that must stay there until weather warms up in the spring. Enjoy.


Coming from a cold climate (where we have real winters), I personally park my trailer in the fall and look forward to using it again when weather warms up in the spring.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:48 PM   #44
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Not sure why you'd want to camp in the Montrose/Gunnison area in the winter months. I used to fly in and out of those and overnight, also have fished and camped in that area and the cold months can be brutal. Yes, you could probably do it and survive if you don't use any water or tanks, because it will go down below zero for weeks at a time and heat pads and foam aren't going to help that situation.
The bigger issue is driving in and out of that area in the cold months can be very dangerous. No real good way to get there in winter safely if one of the CO storms hits and the weather can change there in 15 minutes.
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Old 09-12-2016, 01:23 PM   #45
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Not sure why you'd want to camp in the Montrose/Gunnison area in the winter months. I used to fly in and out of those and overnight, also have fished and camped in that area and the cold months can be brutal. Yes, you could probably do it and survive if you don't use any water or tanks, because it will go down below zero for weeks at a time and heat pads and foam aren't going to help that situation.
The bigger issue is driving in and out of that area in the cold months can be very dangerous. No real good way to get there in winter safely if one of the CO storms hits and the weather can change there in 15 minutes.
yeah, ok, but are there any downsides to winter camping there?



Points well taken.

I have a relative that lives near there, and was thinking of a Thanksgiving trip some year, and being somewhat prepared....

maybe I should think more about Utah / California mountains for snow camping?
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:14 PM   #46
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Here's a quote from another forum of their experience driving to Montrose/Gunnison at Thanksgiving time:
"One of my all-time worst winter driving experiences occurred years ago on Monarch Pass. Jackknifed semi's everywhere, drifting and blowing snow, numerous car accidents, over 4"-6" inches of snow on the road in places (with so many accidents and stuck semi's, the plows couldn't even work efficiently)--it all added up to misery. I got through unscathed, but a trip from Denver to Gunnison that normally took 3 1/2 hours took 13 1/2 hours that day. Oh, and it was the Sunday after Thanksgiving--one of those in that 4-year string of winter storms on the Sunday after Thanksgiving"

That's a good example of CO winter driving in the mountains, sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:29 PM   #47
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winter, ugg

That is why we live in AZ, no more studded tires every October, no more chains when the snow was deeper.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:38 PM   #48
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My son is planning some winter snowboard trips to Keystone, Breckinridge and Vail where he will take the 5.0 TA along and just sleep in it. Mostly three and four day trips over the weekend. Probably won't use the fresh water system and will put lots of RV antifreeze in the grey and black tanks. This winter he will be scouting possible places to park it for boon docking. He has some Vail passes on his season ticket but driving the extra distance to Vail and staying there overnight is very expensive.

We plan to work together to insulate the bottom of the trailer; not planning to use heat tape.
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:54 PM   #49
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I lived in Gunnison for 8 years. In January I saw as low as -48F. In December, -20F is common. Pretty brutal. It's actually warmer if you gain some elevation. Inversions form at night with all the cold are pooling in the valley floor. All the wide, flat valleys in the west are that way.

Grand Junction or Montrose should be OK if you avoid December, January, and the first half of February.

We have a simple rule for winter camping, which is it must have predicted lows above 15F. Colder than that isn't very pleasant when you open the door in the morning to take the dogs out! This requirement does limit the season somewhat, but there are lots of places that rarely get below that even in January.
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:51 AM   #50
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Maintenance under trailer

I just placed my order for a 17B and now the options journey begins. I am thinking of adding the foam under the trailer - have learned from reading posts that the tank level sensors should be replaced with the Horst sensors - wondering what other possible maintenance problems would arise requiring removal of foam. Have you experienced problems requiring removal of the foam and how did it go? Second time around would you still choose to add the foam?
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:18 PM   #51
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...have learned from reading posts that the tank level sensors should be replaced with the Horst sensors...
I think you will get many contradictory views on this statement as "should" is very strong.
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:20 PM   #52
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The probes should be installed during production, then have the foam seal them. I have had the foam on all 3 of my Escapes without any issues.
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:42 PM   #53
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What's your take on replacing the sensors Karen?
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:50 PM   #54
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Sensors... some have good luck with the originals, some do not. If you want them to work, get them replaced during the build. Most of 5lthe folks that have issues learn to live with it, like me. I should have had them replaced.

Foam, it has saved a couple road objects from slamming into the fresh tank. Hard to tell if it's saved us from having freezing issues. Had no insulation on my old trailer and had no problems either.

Hard to advise one way or the other.
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Old 10-05-2016, 01:10 PM   #55
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What's your take on replacing the sensors Karen?
Since I have a 15A, I don't have an experienced "take" on them not having any tanks other than a fresh-water tank. That one I can just bend over to see it under the trailer (no insulation). I merely am suggesting that there are differences of opinion on this forum regarding the Horst probes...some think they're necessary and others don't give a hoot about such accuracy. I'd be in the latter group if I had gray- and black-water holding tanks.
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Old 10-05-2016, 04:28 PM   #56
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I just placed my order for a 17B and now the options journey begins. I am thinking of adding the foam under the trailer - have learned from reading posts that the tank level sensors should be replaced with the Horst sensors - wondering what other possible maintenance problems would arise requiring removal of foam. Have you experienced problems requiring removal of the foam and how did it go? Second time around would you still choose to add the foam?
Being a stellar example of the "if enough people say it's a must have, I must have it!" mentality, I purchased the Horst Probes and had Escape install them. So far, me being an exemplary follower has paid off, and the probes haven proven accurate over the time we have owned the trailer (if I said only 4 or so weeks' worth of camping in the 5.0TA, it would make me sound like a complete noob, so I left that out. Wait...oh shoot!!)

However, when I looked online and saw the differences in the probes, even to my oft-befuddled mind, it seemed that if the probe had a protector over it as the Horst does, vs. nothing to keep say a piece of toilet paper from gently laying over the bare probe to give a false reading, the covered probe wins. And even in my brain, where there are so many competing voices...it made me happy.
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Old 10-27-2016, 11:53 AM   #57
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Sorry for reviving this old thread again, but I just found that ETI will not install the heat tape any more -- even if you supply it. They said they have done it for a few customers in the past but don't feel comfortable with the idea after speaking with some suppliers. They suggest not getting the spray foam applied, having a heating contractor do the pads and tape, and then come back for the spray foam or have it done locally. To clarify, they still do the pads, just not the tape.

Went back and forth on this one but we decided to stick with the heating pads and spray foam. For only $200 extra having the heat pads seems better than nothing even if it's not a 100% solution. We probably don't even really need them, but it's cheap so why not.
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Old 10-27-2016, 04:27 PM   #58
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... However, when I looked online and saw the differences in the probes, even to my oft-befuddled mind, it seemed that if the probe had a protector over it as the Horst does, vs. nothing to keep say a piece of toilet paper from gently laying over the bare probe to give a false reading, the covered probe wins. And even in my brain, where there are so many competing voices...it made me happy.
Not everything in the black tank abides by the rules of gravity alone. What if something "sloshes" up between the replacement probe's sensor and so-intended protective hood and gets lodged in the gap? Seems that could cause a constant erroneous reading, too. With the protective hood now covering and protecting the "sloshed element", how does one dislodge that? Just asking (no graphic images or explanations, please). Seems that it would be at least somewhat easier to clean and maintain the probes without a hood potentially blocking the spray of a cleaning nozzle or whatever. Does that even make sense?
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Old 10-27-2016, 04:28 PM   #59
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Just remember that even if you add heating pads, the black water tank line itself is unheated and will not flow at temps below about 20 degrees. Insulating the black water line delays but does not solve the problem as eventually the liquid sitting in that 3" diameter pipe will freeze, or at least become sludgelike and not flow (even with 100% pink stuff). If you want to fix this, ask Escape if they would install another gate valve right at the junction of the black water tank and the discharge pipe so that the pipe is EMPTY until you dump. (This assumes design has not been improved since we bought our unit)
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Old 10-27-2016, 05:18 PM   #60
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Not everything in the black tank abides by the rules of gravity alone. What if something "sloshes" up between the replacement probe's sensor and so-intended protective hood and gets lodged in the gap? Seems that could cause a constant erroneous reading, too. With the protective hood now covering and protecting the "sloshed element", how does one dislodge that? Just asking (no graphic images or explanations, please). Seems that it would be at least somewhat easier to clean and maintain the probes without a hood potentially blocking the spray of a cleaning nozzle or whatever. Does that even make sense?
Suppose almost anything is possible, but I've never heard of it with the Horst whereas almost everyone has issues with the standard probes. Although I believe someone here had issues with them.
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