Just Ordered a 21 - Another Window Discussion

[Jim Bennett]

After 25 years of trailers with various types of framed sliders, and now having the frameless awning for nearing 3 years, I can say without a doubt I would stick with the new style. To me they look way better. They are easier to operate. I like the smoked colour. They work great exposed to normal rain.

The myth of better ventilation in the slider is just not the case, nor should it be a factor. The actual measured open area of an awning is about the same of that of the same sized slider, as only half the slider window opens and the awning opens along the side. Either way you wish to look at it, the awning windows provide good enough ventilation other than on blistering hot days with no wind, BUT then the use of the MaxxFan along with some open windows provides plenty of ventilation.

The framed are a bit cheaper if that matters in a trailer of this cost.

The bottom line is they both work fine. Pick your choices for your own reasons and you will be able to go camping and enjoy.

[Doug2000]

Our 2007 17B had all sliding framed windows. When it rained, all the windows had to be shut, even the windows under the awning or we would get water in.

If we order a new 19', some of the windows will need to be awning windows to maintain air flow.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

Our 2007 17B had all sliding framed windows. When it rained, all the windows had to be shut, even the windows under the awning or we would get water in.

If we order a new 19', some of the windows will need to be awning windows to maintain air flow.

I believe it is either all framed or all frameless, no mixing...

[Patandlinda]

Just a few thoughts . Since when did my sliders become hard to operate ? Last time I looked which is right now out the window look dark windows to me . I guess the air can move up to the opening instead of just coming straight in . Really doesn’t matter I guess as long as you have windows . And everyone has a awning window , the escape window ,but that is a totally different window . Pat

[Micheal K]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

The myth of better ventilation in the slider is just not the case, nor should it be a factor. The actual measured open area of an awning is about the same of that of the same sized slider, as only half the slider window opens and the awning opens along the side.

I have awning windows and like them for pretty much all the reasons others have given (appearance, function in rain, thermally isolated frame), but I doubt the ventilation is as good as sliders. Based on quick inspection of one of my awning windows, a slider would have to open only 30% to have equivalent opening area.

(Arithmetic: Dimensions of front awning window on our 19’ are approx 17"x26". I measured a max opening of 3" at bottom. So cross sectional opening rectangle at bottom is 3"x26" and 2 triangles on the sides of 1/2x3"x17". Total for awning window = 129 sq inches.
Assuming 45% typical opening for slider of same size gives .45x17"x26" = 199 sq inches.)

Ventilation is more complicated than just opening size though - I found a relevant paper comparing different styles of windows on an apartment in Hong Kong. The results are based on mathematical modeling with some real world validation. One of the conclusions is that sliders are better than awning windows for natural ventilation.

https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/view...&context=ihpbc

[Fox hunt]

i agree the air flow from my sliders was better. but i also use the fan so i get plenty of airflow with the awning windows and the back escape window opens really wide. i like the awning because it rains a lot here and i can keep them open in the rain. I also get less condensation around them and i like the way they look. My friend has the Northern lite camper her awning window open very wide - very nice!

[yangstyle]

This 303 people are mentioning. Is it the 303 aerospace product?
It looks like there are a lot of different products, is there one that can be used for more than 1 job?

[padlin]

The regular 303 Aerospace Protectant

https://www.goldeagle.com/product/30...ce-protectant/

[sclifrickson]

We’ve owned both framed and frameless. Both have pros and cons. We prefer the frameless as they perform much better in wet weather (no rain ingress), and in cold weather (greatly reduced condensation on the frames). We also love being able to open the rear window (unavailable with framed windows). And they just look way cooler.

We did like and miss the big hole that you can stick your head through with the sliders, but occasionally struggled with windows getting stuck and not wanting to open. Probably should have lubed them more often.

One other factor to consider is whether you’re getting electric or manual awning. If manual, you may lose ability to open certain awning-style (frameless) windows if awning is not deployed, as the awning arms may block the windows. This is not an issue with sliders.

Overall, performance in rain and cold are the biggest reasons we prefer frameless, living in the Pacific Northwet as we do, and being all season campers.

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by Micheal K

I have awning windows and like them for pretty much all the reasons others have given (appearance, function in rain, thermally isolated frame), but I doubt the ventilation is as good as sliders. Based on quick inspection of one of my awning windows, a slider would have to open only 30% to have equivalent opening area.



(Arithmetic: Dimensions of front awning window on our 19’ are approx 17"x26". I measured a max opening of 3" at bottom. So cross sectional opening rectangle at bottom is 3"x26" and 2 triangles on the sides of 1/2x3"x17". Total for awning window = 129 sq inches.

Assuming 45% typical opening for slider of same size gives .45x17"x26" = 199 sq inches.)



Ventilation is more complicated than just opening size though - I found a relevant paper comparing different styles of windows on an apartment in Hong Kong. The results are based on mathematical modeling with some real world validation. One of the conclusions is that sliders are better than awning windows for natural ventilation.



https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/view...&context=ihpbc

Love your scientific approach to this! Would be interesting to do the math to add up total ventilation inches for a framed vs a frameless trailer, also taking into consideration the opening rear windows on a frameless-equipped rig.

[endorice]

Matt - I live in Colorado, and also struggled with the window choice during my build this past spring. I went frameless and have no regrets. Wanted to be able to open the windows slightly during the afternoon showers we get in the mountains :-)

Gerald

[Ksambor]

Originally Posted by mstruzz

Hi Everyone,

My name is Matt, and my wife Nadine and I just put in our order for a new 21. We have a 11 month old and decided that it was way better to keep up our camping lifestyle with a trailer, and the 21 is a great fit. I've been researching the forum for a while now, and there is a load of great info on here!

One of the thing's I'm wrestling with, as many others have noted, is the window decision. Being in Colorado, we are definitely getting the extra insulation and thermal windows. However it looks like ETI has changed their options list, and there are now options for Framed and Frameless THERMAL windows. My understanding is that the framed thermal is a newer option, and that framed in the past used to be non-thermal.

I'm leaning towards the framed thermal for a few reasons. 1) It is cheaper, 2) they open more for better airflow, 3) I've seen some folks have had leaking and other QC issues with the frameless. I like the look of the frameless, but am not particularly concerned with how it looks over function.

Does anyone know about the framed thermals or have experience with them? Also, does anyone know if the new framed thermal have a window in the back (dinette) that opens up?

Thanks! I might be asking a few more questions on my build but will try to research everything first, so as not to open up topics that have already been discussed.

For what it is worth, we got the frameless thermal and extra insulation on our 2018 21’. They are fine. I don’t really understand the air flow thing. You get good enough flow with frameless. If you need some wind you just full open the emergency window and door w screen closed. They are neat looking, easy to operate, east to clean and no worries about rain. The ability to open the back ones is nice. You do have to tighten them down for travel, but no real problem if they do open a bit when traveling. Either way, I recommend the extra insulation.

[cpaharley2008]

The framed thermal has been around, I had it on my 2012. The frameless thermal is new, since 2016. Without frames, there is less condensation on the inside.

[cpaharley2008]

The framed windows in rear are non opening, frameless are opening in the rear. Also no mixing between framed and frameless....

[Ron in BC]

Except on my old 19 framed slider windows were all sliders, including the tiny bathroom window.

On my new 21 they are somewhat mixed in that, the main windows are sliders, the bathroom window is an awning type and the window in the door is frameless.

Doesn't make any difference to me but it is a change from the former situation.

Really surprised by how large the window by the bed is. Glad that I didn't get another window over the drawer stack because between the side window and the front window I definitely have more than adequate window area.

Ron

[vmomara]

Having had both framed sliders and frameless awning from new, I found the insulated frameless more air tight with no condensation issues.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by padlin

The regular 303 Aerospace Protectant

https://www.goldeagle.com/product/30...ce-protectant/

30313 is the spray bottle size.
30320 is the 1 gal. refill.