"Necessary" Options

[debcost]

I wouldn't be worried about resale, I'd get what I need.

[ronkat]

My favorite upgrade in our 21’ Escape is the U shaped dinette. You can use pillows and really create a comfortable lounging area. It is also nice to have the back bench for storing things you want quick access to. For me it is my knitting, books and decorative pillows.
We picked a medium blue denim sunbrella fabric for our Cushions. Very durable and goes with everything. When I priced recovering the cushions in our Casita I found it quite expensive so we included the upgraded fabric in our Escape and I am sooooo happy with them. Best of luck. ❤️

[Lisa M.]

Still listening to people's advice and searching the forums for more information...

Regarding batteries: If one battery usually gets me five days with conservative use, what would two batteries yield? I can't imagine 2x5=10 in the battery world.

Regarding solar (which I could possibly talk my husband into, providing I came to him with convincing information): I am reading threads and all these learned people could be speaking Greek for all I understand. So, does the unit on top of the trailer charge when you're driving (like the battery does)? If you are parked in shade/filtered sunlight, does it charge at all, or is that when people have a portable unit to set out in the sun? What do you have to do to make it work when you set up? It all sounds so complicated. Does a solar charged battery (if I'm saying this right) provide just lights and water pump? This inverter...does it provide electrical power like for the A/C or a crockpot or to charge a phone (like hooking up a generator)?

Regarding u-shaped dinette: many of the members of our family are pretty good-sized people and I'm guessing might not fit at the back, as it sounds like space is tight. I also think we would miss the big table. However, about the lounging aspec, that keeps coming up, couldn't you cover some bed pillows to sit up against to provide the same comfortable place to read...or not?

I'm sure glad I have plenty of time to make informed decisions with help from you all, and am not pressed for time to complete a build sheet. Thanks again!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

Regarding batteries: If one battery usually gets me five days with conservative use, what would two batteries yield? I can't imagine 2x5=10 in the battery world.

Not exactly, because all batteries are not the same size (that is, the weight of one of the 6-volt batteries is not the same as the standard-equipment 12-volt battery). On the other hand, twice as much battery weight actually gives more than twice as much use, because batteries are not as efficient when working too hard for their size.

[jkavanagh]

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

Still listening to people's advice and searching the forums for more informatiorld

Regarding u-shaped dinette: many of the members of our family are pretty good-sized people and I'm guessing might not fit at the back, as it sounds like space is tight. I also think we would miss the big table. However, about the lounging aspec, that keeps coming up, couldn't you cover some bed pillows to sit up against to provide the same comfortable place to read...or not?

We have a 21 and do not have the u-shaped dinette. I have two nice sized pillows that can be used behind our backs while lounging with my feet up, enjoying the view or reading book.I am not tall so it is comfortable for me.I love the look of the u-shaped but enjoy entertaining or having meals in when the weather not cooperating so prefer the large table.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

Regarding solar (which I could possibly talk my husband into, providing I came to him with convincing information): I am reading threads and all these learned people could be speaking Greek for all I understand. So, does the unit on top of the trailer charge when you're driving (like the battery does)?

The thing on top is the panel; it does not store any energy, it is just a source of power to charge the battery. It does not care whether you are driving or not - it will charge the battery whenever it gets enough sunlight.

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

If you are parked in shade/filtered sunlight, does it charge at all, or is that when people have a portable unit to set out in the sun? What do you have to do to make it work when you set up? It all sounds so complicated.

There can be "enough sunlight" to charge even in shade, but don't expect much. Yes, this is why people use portable panels. A portable panel just needs to be placed somewhere and plugged in, but the rooftop panel doesn't require you to do anything at all, and works whether you add a portable panel or not. It can be complex to understand how it all works, but it is not complex to use. You could forget that you have a rooftop panel at all and it would still work for you.

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

Does a solar charged battery (if I'm saying this right) provide just lights and water pump?

The battery runs everything that gets 12-volt power, which is almost everything in the trailer, except for:

• (optional) air conditioning
• (optional) electric element in water heater
• 120 volt refrigerator element
• anything you plug into the ordinary household receptacles (outlets)

It doesn't matter whether the battery is charged by plugging the trailer in, or connecting it to a running tow vehicle, or a solar system - it runs the same things.

So that means the battery runs

• lights (interior and exterior, but not the tail/brake/marker lights)
• water pump
• refrigerator controls
• refrigerator 12-volt element (but use propane instead when not driving)
• water heater controls
• furnace fan
• ceiling vent fan
• bathroom fan
• stove hood fan (and light)
• tank level monitors
• built-in USB outlets (for phone charging, etc)
• propane detector
• (optional) power awning
• (optional) power tongue jack
• (optional) stereo system
• (optional) amplified TV antenna
• (optional) tank heat pads

... and I've probably missed something.

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

This inverter...does it provide electrical power like for the A/C or a crockpot or to charge a phone (like hooking up a generator)?

The (optional) inverter runs things that get plugged into the receptacles (outlets). It is not connected to run some built-in things which take too much power:

• (optional) air conditioning
• (optional) electric element in water heater
• 120 volt refrigerator element

[steve dunham]

There are some trailer options that will make it easier to sell if you decide to do so in the future
There are other options that may have no value to the next purchaser or in fact may make them walk away
IE ; Our Scamp did not have a furnace and we experienced several people who looked to purchase our Scamp and just walk away when they saw it lacked a furnace . We eventually sold our Scamp but at a reduced price
When we purchased our Casita we asked Casita which options were the most popular and which ones people added at a later date and what was the cost

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

Regarding u-shaped dinette: many of the members of our family are pretty good-sized people and I'm guessing might not fit at the back, as it sounds like space is tight. I also think we would miss the big table. However, about the lounging aspec, that keeps coming up, couldn't you cover some bed pillows to sit up against to provide the same comfortable place to read...or not?

If you add the Lippert slider to the U-shaped dinette table, pretty good-sized people have no trouble setting in the back cushion area. The Lippert slider allows the table to move forward such that plenty of room is available.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f7...tml#post182654
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...cor-14706.html

[Bobbie54]

Welcome to the Escape, Lisa!

I'd say what did you miss in the Casita? What have you wished you had? If not easy to add later- get it now. If it just sounds cool but you never missed it, it probably isn't necessary. I don't know when you need your build sheet done but if after May, walk through the Escapes at the rally in Central Cal. and see what people have that you like.) (And when you come to pick it up let me know- I'm on your way home, up here on Whidbey.)

[h2owmn]

I can't say about other models, but the captain (corner) lights were all 4 OPTIONS on the 17. I got all 4 but usually only use the one that's above where i sleep. I do like it b/c it's not as bright/glaring as the overhead lights. They are about the only option i ordered that i feel i could have done without.

[Bea]

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

Still listening to people's advice and searching the forums for more information...

Regarding batteries: If one battery usually gets me five days with conservative use, what would two batteries yield? I can't imagine 2x5=10 in the battery world.

Regarding solar (which I could possibly talk my husband into, providing I came to him with convincing information): I am reading threads and all these learned people could be speaking Greek for all I understand. So, does the unit on top of the trailer charge when you're driving (like the battery does)? If you are parked in shade/filtered sunlight, does it charge at all, or is that when people have a portable unit to set out in the sun? What do you have to do to make it work when you set up? It all sounds so complicated. Does a solar charged battery (if I'm saying this right) provide just lights and water pump? This inverter...does it provide electrical power like for the A/C or a crockpot or to charge a phone (like hooking up a generator)?

I'm sure glad I have plenty of time to make informed decisions with help from you all, and am not pressed for time to complete a build sheet. Thanks again!

Hi Lisa, I am no expert so take my advice for what it's worth! Regarding solar, I think it really depends on what type of camping/RVing you primarily like to do. If you normally go to places with hookups, then you could forgo the solar and go with a single 12V battery (but get a deep cycle marine battery - not a car battery)...and perhaps just get the trailer 'pre-wired' for solar in case you change your mind down the road??

However, I think you said you like to dry camp so, in that case, if you go with the solar option then the 2, 6 Volt batteries are better, not necessarily because of it's ability to hold a bigger/longer charge at any one time but that it can withstand a lot more cycles of discharges and recharges over time (~800 vs ~150), so it should far outlast a 12V battery especially if you drain it and recharge it a lot.

Your question - Does the solar panel charge the trailer batteries while driving? is a great question and one I have myself! We pick up our trailer next month and will add it to our list of things to ask, which is getting longer and longer with each thread I read.....

Our previous experience with solar panels and shade is that there are varying levels of shade....and heavy shade sometimes affected the solar input/output but we were more impressed, actually at the how well they work/charge - even in partial sun and full shade. For instance, we just built a simple tarp structure (the kind you see at Costco) for my sister's Lance trailer and she was thrilled to find that her solar panel works just fine under the tarp structure, just from the ambient light and keeps her batteries fully charged. I suspect ETI's solar panel will behave similarly.

Some people bring portable panels for various reasons but I think some like having the option to angle their panels at the direct sunlight for maximum sun exposure. We used to have portable panels that we placed on the top our pop-up trailers and that set up was simple, just plug in and set the panels where you want. However, as others have pointed out on this forum, portable panels can be easily stolen, especially if left on the ground and you walk away from your campsite...but I understand the flexibility aspect portable ones offer. But IMHO having the solar panel bolted to the top of your trailer would not only be more secure, there is virtually no set up...it's always there. Very simple and ETI's control panel looks user friendly. Or....I believe you can opt for both and ask ETI to wire it for a portable solar port, too.

What does the battery power provide? My understanding is: Lights, water pump, awning (if electric), smoke/Carbon monoxide detector, inverter use (if you have one), juice to your 12V outlets, Stereo/DVD player, TV (with a 12V plug), refrigerator, under trailer heat pads, fan for the furnace and electric tongue jack. (Did I forget anything??) HOWEVER, some things can drain your battery rather quickly, such as the refrigerator, heating pads, etc so use sparingly on the 12V/DC power. Some things like a microwave, Air Conditioner, heating pads may be limited to 120V/AC shore power or a generator since they take A LOT of energy to run them.

I think the same might go for a crock pot?...my guess is that a crock pot might draw more than what the solar panel could replace and potentially drain your batteries? Then again, I just checked my crock pots and my smallest was only 80 Watts, medium was 135-210 Watts and large is 300 Watts. Maybe others can say more definitely from experience if the ETI solar panel with inverter can keep up with a crock pot/appliance like this?

Again, best wishes to you and glad you have time to do the research!

[Seneca]

I certainly don't want to get into the solar wars, or the window wars, either, for that matter. So, all I'm going to offer is my experience.
1. When I added everything up, all of the options I ordered added about 16-17% to the base price of my Escape 19.
2. I consciously gravitated towards options (like insulation, the bigger refrigerator, etc.), that least lent themselves to an aftermarket upgrade. Example, I bought the high lift axle, but not the underbody insulation, because ETI told me the spray foam could be done afterwards for not much more than if I ordered it at delivery, but that the high lift axle would be a considerably more expensive proposition afterwards, because of additional labor charges.
3. With respect to all electrical system issues, I went with the basic Escape configuration, figuring that I could use the trailer for a year and see if my pattern of use made solar, a generator, additional batteries, whatever, advantageous. Let my own experience, rather than the well meaning opinions of strangers on the web, be my guide.
4. Do not be overwhelmed by the huge number options. The basic trailer is pretty well equipped. And I'm guessing your experience with it will be a pretty good guide to what modifications and additions you decide to make down the road.

[Ellen]

Adding in my 2 cents here. Husband and I owned and enjoyed a Casita for years. Traveled a lot, but always felt a little tight as he is 6’2” and we had two dogs. After longing for an Escape 19’ for years (a larger bed and dining table plus just more overall room to move) we found one that sat online for months. The one thing that kept getting it passed over by others was the lack of an A/C. We usually boondocked in our Casita (only used the A/C a handful of times) so snatched up the Escape and haven’t looked back, sort of.

Husband added some modifications to customize it for us, including adding two solar panels on the roof and its been wonderful. But, after having a summer road trip with friends derailed two years ago due to an over 100 degree heat wave (they had comfortable A/C and could sleep at night, we could not) we decided to have it added last summer when we were going to be in BC for a wedding. Our solar panels were removed (one had been destroyed by a falling tree branch, both older and not as efficient, and in the way of the new A/C), and roof had to be reinforced on the exterior for A/C and new efficient solar panel. Now I feel that we’ll have the freedom to travel despite any high summer temps we may encounter. We need elec. hook-ups in high-temp areas, but we don’t need to suffer because there’s no option to cool down. We love our solar panel for its ease of use and ability to boondock. We also had the front storage box added (nice, but not mandatory in my opinion), and a tiny bathroom window and ceiling vent fan which are both worth every cent (weren’t an option in our build year).

Good luck with your build sheet!

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Lisa M.

Regarding solar (which I could possibly talk my husband into, providing I came to him with convincing information): I am reading threads and all these learned people could be speaking Greek for all I understand. So, does the unit on top of the trailer charge when you're driving (like the battery does)? If you are parked in shade/filtered sunlight, does it charge at all, or is that when people have a portable unit to set out in the sun? What do you have to do to make it work when you set up? It all sounds so complicated. Does a solar charged battery (if I'm saying this right) provide just lights and water pump? This inverter...does it provide electrical power like for the A/C or a crockpot or to charge a phone (like hooking up a generator)?

We purchased our Escape 5.0 last October and so far have 119 days/nights in the camper.

Yes, the solar panels charge driving down the highway. That's one advantage of roof-mounted panels.

We purchased only one 170 watt panel and have two 6v AGM batteries. Last November we camped many days in completely shaded sites, but when I looked at the controller the batteries were being charged and just about every night reached full charge (I measure at 10-12 at night after the charge settles down). At one point we went eleven days without an electrical hookup, but again they do charge going down the road.

If I put a book directly on the panel (100% blockage of part of the panel, the charge went significantly down. If I raised the book up so it just provided some shade the panels still gave a significant charge. Our 80 watt panel on our previous Bigfoot did not like partial shade. They've come a long way in the last ten years with efficiency/shading.

We camped for eight days in the Cottonwood campground at Big Bend National Park the middle of March. The nights were in the 40's and our furnace ran every night. Our panel had perhaps 1-2 hours of 100% direct light in the afternoon, but was completely shaded until then. Twice we were there at noon and the batteries were completely charged by noon, two hours before getting direct sunlight. There is a difference between 100% blockage and camping in a completely shaded site. Think how bright it is in a cave when they turn the lights off (you see nothing) vs how bright it is in a shaded site.

We live in Minnesota and camp in completely shaded spots quite often. If our 119 day experience continues we'll stick with one panel and no portable. We don't have an inverter though. We have used a Melita pour-over coffee maker forever, make toast in a frying pan, and don't miss a microwave in our campers. YMMV! Terry would like an inverter for her hair dryer, and when she says we're getting one we will. However, I doubt a hair dryer running for 5 minutes will kill our batteries.

A Zamp port is cheap, so if you feel you'll need it in the future have it installed. We chose not to have it installed, but I'm very mechanical. We can easily install a second panel in the future (a plug for the second panel was installed by ETI on our camper and we didn't even ask for it). Just for jollies, we're going to purchase a matching 170 watt panel and store it in our garage in case someday we want a matched set. It will sit next to all the other backups we've never needed.

Enjoy,

Perry

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

We purchased our Escape 5.0 last October and so far have 119 days/nights in the camper.

Yes, the solar panels charge driving down the highway. That's one advantage of roof-mounted panels.

We purchased only one 170 watt panel and have two 6v AGM batteries. Last November we camped many days in completely shaded sites, but when I looked at the controller the batteries were being charged and just about every night reached full charge (I measure at 10-12 at night after the charge settles down). At one point we went eleven days without an electrical hookup, but again they do charge going down the road.

If I put a book directly on the panel (100% blockage of part of the panel, the charge went significantly down. If I raised the book up so it just provided some shade the panels still gave a significant charge. Our 80 watt panel on our previous Bigfoot did not like partial shade. They've come a long way in the last ten years with efficiency/shading.

We camped for eight days in the Cottonwood campground at Big Bend National Park the middle of March. The nights were in the 40's and our furnace ran every night. Our panel had perhaps 1-2 hours of 100% direct light in the afternoon, but was completely shaded until then. Twice we were there at noon and the batteries were completely charged by noon, two hours before getting direct sunlight. There is a difference between 100% blockage and camping in a completely shaded site. Think how bright it is in a cave when they turn the lights off (you see nothing) vs how bright it is in a shaded site.

We live in Minnesota and camp in completely shaded spots quite often. If our 119 day experience continues we'll stick with one panel and no portable. We don't have an inverter though. We have used a Melita pour-over coffee maker forever, make toast in a frying pan, and don't miss a microwave in our campers. YMMV! Terry would like an inverter for her hair dryer, and when she says we're getting one we will. However, I doubt a hair dryer running for 5 minutes will kill our batteries.

A Zamp port is cheap, so if you feel you'll need it in the future have it installed. We chose not to have it installed, but I'm very mechanical. We can easily install a second panel in the future (a plug for the second panel was installed by ETI on our camper and we didn't even ask for it). Just for jollies, we're going to purchase a matching 170 watt panel and store it in our garage in case someday we want a matched set. It will sit next to all the other backups we've never needed.

Enjoy,

Perry

A note on shading on solar panels.

A shaded cell on a solar panel looks like a load to the remaining "unshaded cells". Current is shunted to the lower-voltage "shaded cells", bypassing the controller and battery.

Some panels are equipped with diodes between cells to prevent "reverse current". This I believe comes at the cost of efficiency.

Bottom line, if you "book test" tells you that the panel has significant power loss with only a small area blocked, then you cannot count on a full charge in partially-shaded conditions.

Happy Camping - Paul

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by suncoastdancers

A note on shading on solar panels.

A shaded cell on a solar panel looks like a load to the remaining "unshaded cells". Current is shunted to the lower-voltage "shaded cells", bypassing the controller and battery.

Some panels are equipped with diodes between cells to prevent "reverse current". This I believe comes at the cost of efficiency.

Bottom line, if you "book test" tells you that the panel has significant power loss with only a small area blocked, then you cannot count on a full charge in partially-shaded conditions.

The "book test" was just for reference. It's all relative, yet we're getting "a full charge in partially-shaded conditions," or even fully-shaded conditions on most days, and since my battery problem was corrected, have yet to even come close to not getting a decent charge in the winter months. Seems too many people stress out about today's solar. And yes, if you need to have an inverter more solar input is required, but so far we don't need it.

Enjoy,

Perry

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

The "book test" was just for reference. It's all relative, yet we're getting "a full charge in partially-shaded conditions," or even fully-shaded conditions on most days, and since my battery problem was corrected, have yet to even come close to not getting a decent charge in the winter months. Seems too many people stress out about today's solar. And yes, if you need to have an inverter more solar input is required, but so far we don't need it.

Enjoy,

Perry

Hi Perry:

Good to Hear

I think that your book test highlights an interesting issue when solar charging. Fortunately, with LEDs, power needs are not quite what they were in the "incandescent" days. Now, about charging all those mobile devices we now carry ...!?

Paul

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by suncoastdancers

I think that your book test highlights an interesting issue when solar charging. Fortunately, with LEDs, power needs are not quite what they were in the "incandescent" days. Now, about charging all those mobile devices we now carry ...!?

We hardly have any mobile devices to charge: my Pixel phone, Chromebook, and Kindle, plus Terry's Samsung phone, Chromebook, and Nook. We ordered three additional 12v/USB outlets inside our camper and a 12v plug-in and two USB ports next to the entry door. And soon that Bluetooth Victron Battery Monitor will also be sucking the life out of our batteries.

Can't seem to get away from my IT days.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Bea]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Terry would like an inverter for her hair dryer, and when she says we're getting one we will. However, I doubt a hair dryer running for 5 minutes will kill our batteries.

Perry

Hi Perry, If you have a 12V outlet, perhaps your wife might like to try this? It's a small hair dryer but... doesn't need an inverter. -Bea
https://www.amazon.com/Volt-Hair-Dry...y&sr=8-2-spell

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Bea

Hi Perry, If you have a 12V outlet, perhaps your wife might like to try this? It's a small hair dryer but... doesn't need an inverter. -Bea
https://www.amazon.com/Volt-Hair-Dry...y&sr=8-2-spell

Buyer beware. No Amazon reviews and similar products have poor reviews. At 150W it is not going to have the capacity to replace a real 120V hair dryer.