Sell me and others on a fiver - 5.0TA - Page 3 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Me | General Topics > Shopping Escape
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-26-2018, 08:21 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0
Posts: 111
There are lots of people going down the highway with seemingly crazy setups and they get them home all the same. The right driver can make many dumb setups work just fine but if you don't fancy yourself the most skilled tow vehicle driver on the road then here is some stuff you might want to consider.

A bumper pull trailer carries it's weigh on a ball that is about 4 feet behind the rear axle, depending on the bed configuration. Any weight that is put on the ball is balanced by taking weight off the front end. If that isn't compensated for the front end will get light and lose steering control. The standard fix is a weight distributing hitch which moves some of the weight to the front by spring action.

When there are cornering forces on the trailer it will tend to want to move the rear of the tow vehicle to the outside of the turn. This is an unstable action and can result in a jack-knife. This is even worse if there is braking involved at the same time.

If a weight distributing hitch is not used the amount of additional weight on the rear axle is about the same as the unstable cornering forces so there is more grip available to counter the instability, making it less of a problem. If a load distributing hitch is used the rear will not have any additional grip to counter the unstable cornering forces so the combination is even less stable in corners.

I have had a bumper pull trailer push the rear of my tow vehicle sideways as I tried to pull off the highway and into a gas station. It is pretty thrilling. It takes the same handling skills as a skid in the snow. I live in Idaho so I'm practiced at it but had I not been driving pretty conservatively it could have gotten ugly fast.

A bumper pull trailer will turn a maximum of 50 degrees before something runs into something else. Usually it is the bumper hitting the hitch but it could be other stuff.

A 5er puts the weight nearly directly over the rear axle, more or less. A fifth wheel hitch can be repositioned for and aft about 10 inches (if you buy the right one) so with a short bed you can go down the road with the hitch forward for good weight distribution and handling. When you slow down and especially when you go to back into a camp site the hitch can be slid back to allow for better turning.

If a 5th wheel is kept in the forward position it will often break the rear window on the tow truck in a sharp turn into a camping spot. Whether this is better or worse than a bumper pull binding on the rear of the tow vehicle is a matter of opinion and happenstance.

A fifth wheel in an 8 foot bed or a 6.5 foot bed with a slider hitch can turn at least 90 degrees. Mine will go further. Maybe 110 degrees before the side of the trailer hits the rear of the truck cab. I haven't tried this out for sure for obvious reasons.

When a 5th wheel trailer experiences cornering forces it will also tend to slide the rear of the tow vehicle to the outside of the turn which is again unstable. Since the 5th wheel has also applied an equal amount of weight to the rear axle the instability is almost entirely compensated for. If the 5th wheel hitch pin is in front of the axle the setup actually becomes stable.

A bumper pull trailer steers from the hitch ball. When the tow vehicle turns left it pivots around the center of the rear axle. The ball, which is some distance behind the rear axle, momentarily moves right. This steers the trailer the wrong way for a moment. Then if follows around the the turn as intended.

While driving forward the odd behavior of a bumper pull trailer is not much of a bother but when backing it can be a real puzzler. The more direct steering of a 5th wheel is easier to learn and understand. Lots of people are just fine with backing a bumper pull trailer. It just isn't as direct and intuitive as a 5th wheel. If you just think of the rear axle of the truck as though it is the steering axle of the trailer then it is pretty easy to think what needs to be done to get into that tight spot with all of the bushes and the truck parked across the way encroaching on the road. Which describes my very first back into an RV site.

A 5th wheel trailer is steered around the hitch pin which is directly over the rear axle. The rear axle becomes the steering point of the trailer. Putting the steering point of the trailer in the same place as the pivot point of the truck simplifies and stabilizes the dynamics of the vehicle combination.

When a big rig passes, either opposing or in the same direction, it has a bow wave of air pressure. When this strikes the side of a bumper pull trailer it first pushes the front end away and then the rear end. The opposite happens with the suction at the rear of the rig. With a bumper pull trailer the forces are applied through the hitch ball to the tow vehicle. Since the hitch ball has leverage on the rear axle of the tow vehicle it tends to upset it considerably. With a 5th wheel the resulting forces are directly over the pivot point of the tow truck so the disturbance is much less.

A 5th wheel trailer will ride smoother than a bumper pull because bumps that disturb the truck will not have any leverage on the trailer the way they will on a bumper pull although this can be dependent on the suspension of the tow vehicle.

The hitch of a 5th wheel does not have to interfere with the utility of the truck. Most modern 5th wheel hitches mount to industry standard rail in the bed which bolt to industry standard brackets under the bed. Removing 4 clips and the 4 pins they retain will release the hitch from the truck. It can then be lifted out of the truck, leaving only the rails in the bed. The hitch weighs a lot. Getting it into and out of the bed can be a real struggle. You can get a dummy pin with a loop on it that will lock into the hitch and can be used with a crane, lift arm or just a ratchet strap tied to a conveniently place tree limb to lift it out.

That wasn't good enough for me. When installing the brackets under the bed I welded on double nuts so that they would stay with the brackets. I bought a DeWalt 1/2" cordless impact driver and 3/4" socket. With them I can unbolt the hitch rails in about 30 seconds. I leave it attached to the pin on the trailer so that when I raise the front of the trailer it lifts the hitch off the bed. I then drive forward leaving the hitch dangling from the front of the trailer All there is to show for the hitch is 8 holes in the bed. I drop in a bed liner and you would never know that it is a tow vehicle. All in all I can do this in less than 15 minutes out and 20 minutes back in.

If the hitch is left in the truck I can go from fully camped to driving down the road in about 20 minutes.

The right type of awning will let you stow a lot of stuff out of the weather but with a 5th wheel there is another option. I have a canvas shroud that goes around the front of the trailer. This creates a sheltered spot for bikes, grill, chairs and other stuff that just seem to be indispensable.

Something nobody has mentioned is the shaking. I have scissor style stabilizer jacks in back and leveling jacks in front. I have scissor jack style wheel chocks that go between the tandem axles and hold them from moving. You would think with all of this stabilizing the trailer would be pretty solid. You'd be wrong. It shakes like a go-go dancer. I can get, but haven't yet, stabilizer jacks for the rear that also provide more side to side stability. There is a type of tripod support that goes under the pin that is said to take out a lot of the shakes too. We'll see but so far bumper pull trailers seem to be less shaky then 5th wheels. Either one beats a camper that isn't on the truck. It doesn't seem to make any difference on my 5er whether it is hitched to the truck or not. In my experience a bumper pull that is hitched to the tow vehicle is shakier than one that is sitting on the tongue jack and has stabilizers out.
mizterwizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 12:28 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizterwizard View Post
Something nobody has mentioned is the shaking. I have scissor style stabilizer jacks in back and leveling jacks in front. I have scissor jack style wheel chocks that go between the tandem axles and hold them from moving. You would think with all of this stabilizing the trailer would be pretty solid. You'd be wrong. It shakes like a go-go dancer. I can get, but haven't yet, stabilizer jacks for the rear that also provide more side to side stability. There is a type of tripod support that goes under the pin that is said to take out a lot of the shakes too.
While many (perhaps most) Escape 5.0 and 5.0TA owners don't have an issue with the wiggling motion of the trailer when people move inside, some use those tripod stabilizers to minimize it. This is a general issue with fifth-wheel trailers, and results from the landing gear (front jacks) being inherently wobbly: just like a tongue jack, they are stiff vertically, but don't locate side-to-side very stiffly. In a fifth-wheel, they're supporting a substantial fraction of the trailer's weight.

In some trailers the loft bedroom can be vertically bouncy, if the frame isn't stiff enough. I haven't noticed people having this issue with Escapes, likely because the loft is not very long (especially from the jacks which are well forward compared to some conventional fifth-wheels), or because people don't walk in the loft.

In addition to the tripod and bipod devices that brace the trailer at the king pin, there are diagonal braces which take the wobble out of the landing gear. Examples include the BAL Lock-Arm and the JT Strong Arm.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 07:11 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Chotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Naugatuck, Connecticut
Trailer: 2017 50 TA, 2016 F150, 2.7 Ecoboost
Posts: 1,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
The hitch set up is what turned me off after ordering a new 5.0 in 2016. In addition, both yours and my Ram may have cargo capacity issues with the pin weight. Since I also wanted the lightweight Andersen 5th wheel hitch and did not want to risk having a hitch issue 3,000 miles from home, I switched my order to the 19, a known commodity. With a tonneau cover I was able to bring every thing needed for the new trailer in my truck bed, something that was not possible with the 5.0. Of course with you being so close this reason is moot.


What are the hitch problems you see with the Anderson? And as far as the tonneau cover I have a Hard cover with a good size tool box built in that works great with my 5.0 TA.
Chotch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 07:28 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
It was the unknowns, what hitch, what height, what did Hitch masters have in stock, what happens if they can not get a hitch for me while picking up, what if my truck was too high or too low, all these unknowns being 3000 miles from home were going through my pea brain, so I opted for a known solution, an Escape 19. In addition the Ram has a low cargo capacity and the non Andersen set up was heavy and did they have to drill holes in my frame for mounting, so on and so on, with all of these variables being unknown, I back tracked so to speak.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 08:17 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
BCnomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: O town, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 "Lightning"
Posts: 1,467
Yeah, but you got a full set of propane tanks!
BCnomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 08:21 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
and no longer needed those mirror extensions on the Ram.....
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2018, 10:19 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0
Posts: 111
I don't have an Escape 5th wheel. We really thought it was the best solution for us but we just couldn't afford the entrance fee. We have a 2001 Holiday Rambler Alumascape 26'. We still like the Escape but for now this is getting us by.

I posted mainly generic information. Since this is our first RV and we are learning a lot I though I would share what we have learned. It may not all be perfectly applicable to Escape trailers for several reasons.

Escapes generally weigh a lot less than competing trailers so the reactions they have with the tow vehicle are more dominated by the vehicle and less by the trailer.

Escapes are more rounded and aerodynamic so they aren't as affected by cross winds and big rig generated disturbances.

Escapes tend to be more integrated as far as equipment and fittings so they don't flop around as much as stickies.

As far as making things fit your particular tow vehicle, that can all be worked out in Chilliwack. Our RV dealer dropped us like a hot potato as soon as the money changed hands but you are not likely to be treated like that here. These are real people, not sales people.
mizterwizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 06:00 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
Chapitre's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Trailer: 2014 5TA/ *012 17B (previous)
Posts: 442
We had a stabilizer jack for our 5TA and never needed to use it, we sold it. Ours is very stable very little movement- I’ve been told it helps to have larger- higher- blocks in the front and have the jacks themselves not extended really far out.
__________________
Min D
Chapi II
--------------------
'Have No Regrets'
Chapitre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 07:53 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
rubicon327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,126
Bed rail clearance

One thing that I don’t believe was mentioned is bed rail clearance. How much is required/recommended? If someone goes onto “rough” roads is a fifth wheel completely out of the question or would it have to get really crazy to be an issue? I just don’t have any feel for it. Anyone ever have any issues?
rubicon327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 09:48 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
escape artist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
One thing that I don’t believe was mentioned is bed rail clearance. How much is required/recommended? If someone goes onto “rough” roads is a fifth wheel completely out of the question or would it have to get really crazy to be an issue? I just don’t have any feel for it. Anyone ever have any issues?
Hi: rubicon327... Only time that was an issue was coming out of a CG in Cape Breton Island. The GMC Sierra we had pointed nose down and the 5.0 didn't, but I took it slow and steady without further togetherness. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
escape artist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 01:48 PM   #51
Member
 
grape_escape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Penticton, British Columbia
Trailer: 2018 5.0 TA
Posts: 82
Thanks

Thank you for starting this thread. We have a beautiful 2017 21' and have been weighing the pro's and con's of the 5.0 Ta. I hope that there are more responses to this thread
grape_escape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 01:49 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by grape_escape View Post
Thank you for starting this thread. We have a beautiful 2017 21' and have been weighing the pro's and con's of the 5.0 Ta. I hope that there are more responses to this thread
You need to update your avatar then.....
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 02:49 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
One thing that I don’t believe was mentioned is bed rail clearance. How much is required/recommended? If someone goes onto “rough” roads is a fifth wheel completely out of the question or would it have to get really crazy to be an issue? I just don’t have any feel for it. Anyone ever have any issues?
I went camping once with a church group and one of the people there had a 5er that was mounted about 4" above the bed rails. The camp ground had a steep entrance and that trailer hit the bed rails and made a pretty good set of dents in both sides. His was not an Escape. That is the only incidence of interference between the trailer and the bed rails I have seen.

You can learn a lot by walking around campgrounds. I haven't noticed any other dented bed rails. I just measured mine and it is 7.5 inches above the bed rails. I haven't got a lot of experience yet but so far it has never even been close to hitting.

Hitches have a couple of things that can affect this. Mine has a pivot so that it tilts a few degrees from side to side. This means that it will need more clearance if I should drive on uneven ground but it also puts less stress on the trailer and truck. Many 5er hitches don't pivot from side to side so they would be less likely to hit the bed rails but the trade off is more stress on everything when running on bumpy roads.

A second feature on my hitch is adjustable height. There are some bolts that can be taken out and then the height of the hitch adjusted up or down several inches. This isn't something I would do very often but it is there if I need it. If I came to a location where it looked like there might be a problem I could extend the landing gear in the trailer, undo the bolts, extend the landing gear further to lift the hitch and then put the bolts back in.

Another option would be a flat bed. If you switched to a goose neck hitch, something that can be done by any trailer repair outfit, it would lower the point of contact between the truck and trailer. That would improve the handling dynamics even further and combined with a flat bed it could eliminate any interference issue. The main problem with a goose neck hitch is that it puts more stress on the structure of the trailer. You should contact ETI about this before doing any hitch mods.
mizterwizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 07:54 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by grape_escape View Post
Thank you for starting this thread. We have a beautiful 2017 21' and have been weighing the pro's and con's of the 5.0 Ta. I hope that there are more responses to this thread
Is keeping up with the Bennett's a good reason?
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 10:31 PM   #55
Site Team
 
rbryan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Is keeping up with the Bennett's a good reason?
Yes, but not all 5.0TAs are created equal. Some had help from a bald guy who's partial to Islay Scotch.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2018, 11:08 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
Yes, but not all 5.0TAs are created equal. Some had help from a bald guy who's partial to Islay Scotch.
Hey, what a coincidence. I just finished a glass by the campfire.

Chased in early by rain though.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2018, 10:12 AM   #57
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Orion, Illinois
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 62
Star gazing in the loft

We discovered another advantage of the 5.0TA while boondocking along the Hennepin Canal in Illinois this past weekend. The weather was hot so without hookups we had all the windows open including the escape hatch in the bed loft. With a clear sky and a nice breeze we really enjoyed looking at the stars as we went to sleep. If we had hookups the air conditioner would have been on and we would have missed it...although with a high of 95 I missed the ac.

As to the question about truck bed rail clearance, I would suggest a minimum of 6". I had about 8" clearance with our 2017 F150 as originally set up (Andersen ultimate hitch) but decided to raise the pin box to level the trailer. That reduced the clearance to just over 6" which has made me watch carefully in some situations but no contact made.
__________________
Tom
Tom and Gay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2018, 02:06 PM   #58
Member
 
grape_escape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Penticton, British Columbia
Trailer: 2018 5.0 TA
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Is keeping up with the Bennett's a good reason?
grape_escape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 06:52 AM   #59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Auburn, New Hampshire
Trailer: 2017 Rpod 182G
Posts: 21
My reason to head to a 'Fiver' is mine, yet may help those deciding.

On our 4,000 mile run through the Nor'east Maritimes and hauled twice through 25-30 knot winds. That, when sailing would make me head for safe anchorage and wait it out, yet we needed to make distance/destination. Being passed by a 235 Fox Mountain 5th wheel (short 5th) we were amazed as to how well he was towing! We watched his rig as he dis-appeared in the distance.

He was our neighbor that evening and lead into a long conversation (and new friend) about towing and 5th wheels.

We don't care for large towable's.. The 5.0TA really does 'fit the wants' for us. Small enough to get into the sites we prefer to be on. Easier attach/dettach. Smoother hauling.

I guess if you're a weekender or just setup at a site, stay, then drive home, it doesn't make as big of a difference. We travel. Towing with ease is very important to us. That 4K run will seem short after our next planned run! LOL

In closing: Bumper or Bed pulled, the only bad choice is not to hookup and go!
olddawgsrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 09:14 AM   #60
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Mtns of NC, North Carolina
Trailer: 2013 19' Escape 1977 Trillium 1300
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizterwizard View Post
I went camping once with a church group and one of the people there had a 5er that was mounted about 4" above the bed rails. The camp ground had a steep entrance and that trailer hit the bed rails and made a pretty good set of dents in both sides. His was not an Escape. That is the only incidence of interference between the trailer and the bed rails I have seen.

You can learn a lot by walking around campgrounds. I haven't noticed any other dented bed rails. I just measured mine and it is 7.5 inches above the bed rails. I haven't got a lot of experience yet but so far it has never even been close to hitting.

.
+10 You need the clearance you need to not hit the truck bed. Your awareness, or lack of, can make "adequate" clearance into "inadequate". Years ago, we were pulling out of a campground near Bryce Canyon. The campground exit was a short steep hill that immediately flattened out. My lack of awareness reared its ugly head when I got to the top of that hill. The truck was on the flat section, while the trailer was still on the uphill section. Bang! Trailer hit tailgate. Put a nice crease in the bottom of the fifth wheel.

I really don't know how people do it with just one or two inches of clearance. They obviously are on top of their game, aware of any odd terrain where the truck can be at one angle while the trailer at another.

Myself, maybe its just memory fade, but I really loved how a fifth wheel towed, very stable! Better than a tow behind.
NCBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.