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Old 08-22-2016, 10:35 PM   #21
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We are thinking of a new 21 or 5.0 and are wondering about the window types.
During the night my wife while in bed makes micro adjustments to the standard frame window in our 21 It has occurred to me that she might not be able to make those little one inch or more adjustments to air flow with the new frames. I am assuming the frameless windows are only open or closed. So it seems like that is one advantage of the standard frame over the frameless type.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John G. View Post
We are thinking of a new 21 or 5.0 and are wondering about the window types.
During the night my wife while in bed makes micro adjustments to the standard frame window in our 21 It has occurred to me that she might not be able to make those little one inch or more adjustments to air flow with the new frames. I am assuming the frameless windows are only open or closed. So it seems like that is one advantage of the standard frame over the frameless type.
They can be adjusted. Not just open or closed.

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Old 08-23-2016, 05:42 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
Just remember, the frame work on the inside of the window is the same whether you get frameless or framed windows. This is a picture Laura took of the 19' Frameless window during the build
Actually, when I posted close ups of the windows in post "new windows and insulation" I tried to show that the frames intrude into the interior about 1/2" less. The curtain knobs sit closer to the wall and offer less surface area for thermal convection. My close up also shows the window in full open and can be adjusted down to anything in between until closed. There is no question if we were buying today, we would get the new windows.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f7...tml#post148353
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:30 PM   #24
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Window frame protrusion into the interior

It makes sense that the "frameless" style of window would not be as deep into the interior as the standard design, because the glass is mounted outside of the exterior body surface, instead of roughly in the same plane. On the other hand, I'm not sure if other construction changes are confusing the comparison as seen from the interior.

I looked back through It's Friday! - The Classics! far enough to find a construction photo - which is over 40 posts because that has become a decorating and sink choice thread - and then pages further back to find an interior before window installation. As I expected, the windows are still installed by directly clamping on to the fiberglass shell without wood framing around the opening, after the interior insulation and lining is installed. This is how clamp-ring windows have traditionally been installed in mouled fiberglass trailers. In contrast, Laura's photo shows framing (looks like wood, perhaps nominal 1x2 or about 3/4" thick, but maybe thinner - likely 1/2" - or even thicker) surrounding the window.

Presumably either these "frameless" windows have a greater minimum wall thickness which requires the framing, or Escape is now using wood framing as a shim to allow for the thickness of the new insulation without clamping on it. If it is allowance for insulation, then it would be there with either type of window on the new design of body, so comparing a "classic" (first-generation, up to 2016) wall with the standard window to a "new-for-2017" (vertical-side, second-generation) wall with the "frameless" window would be misleading.

Has anyone seen how the new body (with the new insulation) is constructed around a standard (not "frameless") window? I wouldn't be surprised if it too has the wooden framing and less protrusion past the finished interior surface than before.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:17 PM   #25
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the wood frame may be the same but I think ETI or someone said the cutout was different for the same window, so once you go one way you can't go the other way supposedly..not sure which is the smaller cutout...will need to ask ETI, hoping that if you go slider thermal then in a year or two after the lab rats report back, possibly upgrade to frameless.
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:29 AM   #26
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My guess is that the wood framing on the window openings is due to reports of the frameless windows cracking on molded fiberglass trailers. At Quartzsite last year the new manufacturer that showed up there reported he had to remove the frameless windows from all of his trailers due to an almost 100% cracking rate. They apparently succumbed to the flex inherent in the molded glass trailers shell. This information was passed on to ETI and I imagine knowing Reace and Tammy's thoroughness, they took a hard look at it with Hehr and strengthened the backing so that the windows would not be subject to the flex inherent in the fiberglass shell.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:03 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by freespirit View Post
the wood frame may be the same but I think ETI or someone said the cutout was different for the same window, so once you go one way you can't go the other way supposedly..not sure which is the smaller cutout...will need to ask ETI, hoping that if you go slider thermal then in a year or two after the lab rats report back, possibly upgrade to frameless.
Why not become one those rats...?
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:17 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sumac.rhus View Post
So.... do the frameless windows not open... or open only how far?
How do the framed ones open differently?

Had wondered about this, seeing some of the photos posted, and windows flipped open only very slightly.

Thanks!
Hi just saw your questions about the Windows . Personally for us we like the sliders and have had them on previous RV's now totally over 30 years . We have the awning at kitchen but it is not the same as what they are now using . The Escape window also is a awning type but a little different then frameless . As I mentioned before I would go and sit in a new RV and see if you will be happy with air flow . Really don't see any reason with rains to have a lot of windows open . Never have had to replace anything on my slider Windows have previous RV 's each over 12-13 years and was second owner for them . You also have your max fan which is very useful . One new RV we went in had trouble getting window open , it was stuck to glass . It was frameless . My brother had to get all new frameless on his Winabago class A hen it was less the a year old . Leaking Windows . Really want air flow for us .Pat
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:39 PM   #29
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It might also depend on where you live and camp. The original question came from Wisconsin. So I'm referencing an old post with infrared imaging showing the problems with the older style Windows. I believe the new ones to be more efficient but haven't been able to image them yet. See images at this post

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f7...html#post45435

Also note the door insulation should also be better.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:17 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Why not become one those rats...?
$1000 for slider thermal option
$1500 for frame-less thermal option
will save the $500 difference until the lab rats report back....having said that it would be nice to have one frame-less in the rear of the trailer that would open..may ask ETI about that someday before 2017 rolls around.
...and being a lab rat for the new awnings will be enough excitement.
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by freespirit View Post
$1000 for slider thermal option
$1500 for frame-less thermal option
will save the $500 difference until the lab rats report back....having said that it would be nice to have one frame-less in the rear of the trailer that would open..may ask ETI about that someday before 2017 rolls around.
...and being a lab rat for the new awnings will be enough excitement.
You always will have the Escape window which opens more then the frameless in the rear in the rear for the 19 . Not sure where for the 21 . Pat
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Old 08-24-2016, 05:52 PM   #32
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Ten Forward was the 10th 5.0TA off the line I'm 110% happy with my choice. I waited seven years for this build. I ordered the dual-pane slider windows. They work EXACTLY as I expected.

Anyone that's followed me on the all-molded-towable forums knows how I would LOVE to have a trailer with the old-fashioned Jalousie windows (NON-dual pane). Where I live, if it's raining (typical) the wind is also blowing. I am thoroughly happy (26 months later) with keeping the windows closed and opening two passive vents on the roof, turning on the MaxxFan and maybe opening the bathroom window (who cares if the bathroom gets wet... it was designed for THAT).

I made my choice, I hope you are as happy with yours!
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:39 PM   #33
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On having ventilation with rain, that is why we had the small 19' awning window installed at the kitchen on our 21' (instead of the standard big slider). We keep it open at night as well as the bath window, and the fan vents. We have had many nights with rain and don't have to close up everything. We do close those windows if it rains hard and the wind blows a great deal, or just keep them open a crack.

In lighter rain, we can keep the awning window open quite a bit. (I also always run the fans for a few minutes when coming back to the trailer in the day, just in case that might help with any condensation.)
are awning windows a big upgrade in cost over the other styles? also mind snapping of a pic of it on your trailer, would love to see it
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:45 PM   #34
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are awning windows a big upgrade in cost over the other styles? also mind snapping of a pic of it on your trailer, would love to see it
Between $1500 to $2100- Canadian dollar upgrade on the 19' Escape for 8 opening awning windows that are thermal also. Great deal, IMHO.
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:48 PM   #35
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Between $1500 to $2100- Canadian dollar upgrade on the 19' Escape for 8 opening awning windows that are thermal also. Great deal, IMHO.
can you mix and match?
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:49 PM   #36
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can you mix and match?
No, the thermal is a package for the entire trailer, either sliders or thermal awning windows, all around.
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:52 PM   #37
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No, the thermal is a package for the entire trailer, either sliders or thermal awning windows, all around.
meant more like frameless in some spots and awning style in others. my old haggard trailer from 1976 had a sweet mix and match theme going, love it on hot days to open up all those awning windows and really let the air come through.
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:53 PM   #38
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The frameless are the awning style, the sliders are conventional frame style....
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:01 PM   #39
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If I'd had the choice between the original windows or the new frameless when we built the trailer in 2015, I'd go with the frameless all the way. Awning style, and a MUCH cleaner look on the exterior.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:04 PM   #40
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The frameless are the awning style, the sliders are conventional frame style....
so they dont make awnings like this anymore?

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