Thermal window / insulation package

[padlin]

Even with the spray foam the floor gets cold. We use a carpet runner and a cut to size piece under the table, that's what really keeps the floor from feeling cold.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by padlin

Even with the spray foam the floor gets cold. We use a carpet runner and a cut to size piece under the table, that's what really keeps the floor from feeling cold.

This is where the 3/8" thick cork flooring in my 19 shone, nice and warm underfoot.

[davidmurphy02]

Does the spray foam cover and insulate the water hose from the bottom of the fresh water tank that goes up to the water pump? We saw a 5.0TA recently for the first time and I was surprised to see that small diameter hose just hanging out in the open on the back left corner under the trailer. Seems like it would be very vulnerable to freezing overnight in cold weather, and I was wondering if the foam covers it when you get the foam? It's right next to the tank drain valve which they have to keep exposed to be usable.

[cpaharley2008]

That was a drain hose from the refrigerator compartment, the supply hose from the tank is encapsulated within the foam and goes up thru the floor to the pump.

[AllanEdie]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

This is where the 3/8" thick cork flooring in my 19 shone, nice and warm underfoot.

The cork looks great. Did you install it, or did ETI?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I'm skeptical too Allan, although if you look at the cutout photo, the foam appears to be about 7/16", and the black foam maybe 3/16". R5 might be achievable. It's better than my reflectix, that much is apparent.

Would certainly cost more, but ETI should explore the use of aerogel insulation. R-10.3 per inch. Could be a huge selling feature.

http://www.cabotcorp.com/~/media/fil...p-tw800pdf.pdf

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by AllanEdie

The cork looks great. Did you install it, or did ETI?

I did it myself. Escape would not take on a floor like this. I plan on doing it in my 5.0TA some day, but lots and lots of other things to do first.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...ring-2356.html

[AllanEdie]

Spectacular job Jim, very nicely done. It will definitely be on the long term list for us - but not before we decide whether to live with the standard table supports. Thanks for the build link.

[J&B Mitt]

Originally Posted by J&B Mitt

Whatever the 'R' value is--quick observation:
We have the insulation/thermal windows, but not the foam under the floor. We've been dry-camping at the kids' farm for the past several days. It has been in the upper teens/lower twenties Fahrenheit and breezy at night. The furnace has been running some, set at 67 deg. We've been staying toasty. Very little condensation, just a little on the frame of the front window.

Quick Data Point
Okay, so after seven nights of camping with average low temps in the low 20's F, high temps in the low 40's F, we used 19.2 pounds of propane. That's less than we expected.
This included:
--Running the furnace, temp ~67 deg F (lowered when we left the trailer)
--Making a largish pot of percolated coffee every morning
--Running the 6 ft^3 refrigerator on gas only (beer and ice cubes)
--Note: we WEREN'T running the water heater

Side note: we only used solar power (factory 160W). Batteries would drop to 70-75% overnight, and would be recharged by mid-morning (late March, 42 deg lattitude, partial sun.

Jan and Bob

[Iowa Dave]

Hi Bob
Your propane usage is consistent with our experience. I have a simplistic way of looking at this, 7 days, about 21 dollars for propane. No cost for electric. That's cheaper than if I were staying at home and buying propane and electricity. When I'm camping I'm not all that concerned with cost, it's not going to break me up in business. I'm most hopeful for decent weather, good camping neighbors, a few scenic memories, and most importantly good food and libations. Camping fees plus $21 for propane for a week are a bargain as far as we are concerned. Happy Camping and Happy Easter.
Iowa Dave

[canakiwi]

Originally Posted by J&B Mitt

Quick Data Point
Okay, so after seven nights of camping with average low temps in the low 20's F, high temps in the low 40's F, we used 19.2 pounds of propane. That's less than we expected.
This included:
--Running the furnace, temp ~67 deg F (lowered when we left the trailer)
--Making a largish pot of percolated coffee every morning
--Running the 6 ft^3 refrigerator on gas only (beer and ice cubes)
--Note: we WEREN'T running the water heater

Side note: we only used solar power (factory 160W). Batteries would drop to 70-75% overnight, and would be recharged by mid-morning (late March, 42 deg lattitude, partial sun.

Jan and Bob

We have ordered a 21 after several years with an MPG (like an RPod). We camp a lot in these sorts of conditions. Did you have water in your tank and if so any problem with freezing. We have ordered thermal windows, extra insulation and foam with heating pads, but ETI would not include heat tape on exposed water lines

[Anachr0n]

Thanks for the datapoints Bob, and for seconding it Dave. This is really insightful. This is the kind of stuff I look for in these forums. I want to gain a better understanding of how these trailers work in the real world. Specs don't tell the full story.

I want my trailer to handle shoulder season like you two describe, in relative comfort. I want to be able to use propane for cooking and heating, solar for lighting and entertainment. A nice coffee in the morning, good food during the day and a few drinks in the evening. Not a bad day.

[J&B Mitt]

Originally Posted by canakiwi

We have ordered a 21 after several years with an MPG (like an RPod). We camp a lot in these sorts of conditions. Did you have water in your tank and if so any problem with freezing...

No, we didn't risk water in tanks. We brought water in jugs, and used on-site facilities.

[canakiwi]

Ah, thanks for that info. I rarely camp where there are muchin the way of facilities but I am still hopeful that with the foam the water tank and lines should be ok as long as it gets above freezing for an hour or two during the day. Not sure why ETI would not put heat tape on the water lines as that would prevent any problems unless things stayed below freezing for a day or two, but it seems they no longer do that based on "past problems". Oh well I will learn in due course what is practical no doubt. Experience is a great teacher!!

[BCnomad]

Originally Posted by canakiwi

Ah, thanks for that info. I rarely camp where there are muchin the way of facilities but I am still hopeful that with the foam the water tank and lines should be ok as long as it gets above freezing for an hour or two during the day. Not sure why ETI would not put heat tape on the water lines as that would prevent any problems unless things stayed below freezing for a day or two, but it seems they no longer do that based on "past problems". Oh well I will learn in due course what is practical no doubt. Experience is a great teacher!!

There are older threads where this talked about. My no under foam water supply got slow running at about -8c for overnight, but then warmed up fine in the sunshine. I would have to look up what those with protection can camp down to.


....

Also, I have drained a 20lb in as little as 6days in winter, but usually get 10days or so.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by canakiwi

Ah, thanks for that info. I rarely camp where there are muchin the way of facilities but I am still hopeful that with the foam the water tank and lines should be ok as long as it gets above freezing for an hour or two during the day. Not sure why ETI would not put heat tape on the water lines as that would prevent any problems unless things stayed below freezing for a day or two, but it seems they no longer do that based on "past problems". Oh well I will learn in due course what is practical no doubt. Experience is a great teacher!!

Remember that even though the heat pads are 12V you really need to be plugged in to shore power or you will drain down the batteries quite quickly. I don’t know exactly what ETI uses but one 12” x 18” heat pad i see on etrailer draws almost 80 watts. Assuming you have one on the fresh and gray tank and heat tape on some piping you are talking quite a load. Solar would help during the day assuming it is sunny, but overnight is the real problem.