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Old 03-21-2018, 08:50 AM   #1
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Thermal window / insulation package

Do I understand correctly that the thermal windows are awning style and the standard windows are still the sliders? And what is the extra insulation that comes with the thermal window package upgrade - is it a thicker layer of insulation on the walls or something else?
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:20 PM   #2
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For the windows question, you might call Escape and ask. I have the thermal windows and really like them. Being an awning type, I can leave them open without worrying about rain coming in.

The thermal window package upgrade adds 1/2" of foam insulation for the interior of the trailer - standard is just the thin foam that comes attached to the vinyl. You really want the thermal window package upgrade - without it, the trailer is pretty much just fiberglass between you and the elements.
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:50 PM   #3
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Below is a pic of the insulation that comes with the thermal window package upgrade. The bottom layer is the fiberglass shell. Next layer (white foam) is the additional insulation that is installed with the thermal window package. The next layer (black foam) is the standard insulation that is installed on all trailers. The last layer is the aircraft type vinyl that covers the walls of the trailer.
Attached Thumbnails
Wall cutout.jpg  
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:06 PM   #4
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Hi all. I know r-value per inch can vary from one insulation type to another. I’m seeing about an inch of closed cell insulation in that picture. How does that fare against the batting used in a typical stick-&-tin type of trailer? I’d be especially interested in hearing ‘real world’ accounts from those of you who have owned both.
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:20 PM   #5
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I’m seeing about an inch of closed cell insulation in that picture. How does that fare against the batting used in a typical stick-&-tin type of trailer?
Generally the stickies are insulated better than molded fiberglass. The exception would be the double hulled types like the Oliver. But, the thinner shell and no superstructure means of course lower weight and ease of towing. As in most things, there are tradeoffs.

Ours was insulated using reflectix, before they changed over to the foam on the 2nd Generation Escapes. I would say the reflectix is OK, but the foam is better.
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:58 PM   #6
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Thanks. You’re right, everything is a trade-off. I’m not planning on winter camping. Just shoulder season stuff. Half of my reason to insulating is for the noise reduction anyway.
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:09 AM   #7
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From the Escape web page.
“The headliner is a smooth, durable, soft-touch vinyl laminated onto 3/8” foam creating an R5 insulation value. This headliner is fire-rated and easily cleaned.”
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:14 AM   #8
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From the Escape web page.
“The headliner is a smooth, durable, soft-touch vinyl laminated onto 3/8” foam creating an R5 insulation value. This headliner is fire-rated and easily cleaned.”
I could believe that. What I can’t believe is Scamp advertising “Super Insulation R15” with only a single layer of Reflectix. False advertising.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:43 AM   #9
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I could believe that. What I can’t believe is Scamp advertising “Super Insulation R15” with only a single layer of Reflectix. False advertising.
Yes, a silly claim. R15 is perhaps achievable with reflectix, but only in specific installations with an airspace and proper air flow. That just doesn't happen on a fiberglass trailer where the reflectix is right next to the shell.

I figure we may get R2 with ours. Better than nothing.
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:04 PM   #10
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From the Escape web page.
“The headliner is a smooth, durable, soft-touch vinyl laminated onto 3/8” foam creating an R5 insulation value. This headliner is fire-rated and easily cleaned.”
I for one have difficulty believing that the foam gets R5 out of 3/8" thickness. R5 with the extra 1/2" seems feasible, but not with only 3/8" of foam. To get R5 out of 3/8", the flexible foam used would have to be something like three times the effectiveness of the foams used in house construction, which I find difficult to believe.

OTOH, perhaps the total package of standard foam, fiberglass shell, adhesive, and 3/8" foam achieves R5, but I am still less than convinced.

As to the effectiveness of reflectrix, and similar shiny "insulators", their effectiveness is dependent on reflection of radiant heat, and does, usually, bugger all to reduce heat loss through conduction. If "proper" installation of reflectrix includes an air space behind it, the insulation value of the entire installation is dependent on that airspace interfering with conductive heat loss. To attribute the insulating contribution of that air space to the reflectrix itself is extremely dishonest - conductive heat loss is being dealt with by the air space, not the reflectrix.

In my opinion, these reflective insulators are more marketing than real insulative value in real world installations.

Having spouted my little diatribe, I will be ordering the insulation package.
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:10 PM   #11
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I'm skeptical too Allan, although if you look at the cutout photo, the foam appears to be about 7/16", and the black foam maybe 3/16". R5 might be achievable. It's better than my reflectix, that much is apparent.
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:02 PM   #12
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Below is a pic of the insulation that comes with the thermal window package upgrade.
Those look to be the fingers of a really nice fellow!
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:24 PM   #13
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From the Escape web page.
“The headliner is a smooth, durable, soft-touch vinyl laminated onto 3/8” foam creating an R5 insulation value. This headliner is fire-rated and easily cleaned.”
Of course not my words...you can always ask Reace at the Rally to explain.
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Old 03-25-2018, 03:58 PM   #14
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Below is a pic of the insulation that comes with the thermal window package upgrade. The bottom layer is the fiberglass shell. Next layer (white foam) is the additional insulation that is installed with the thermal window package. The next layer (black foam) is the standard insulation that is installed on all trailers. The last layer is the aircraft type vinyl that covers the walls of the trailer.
I appreciate you posting that picture! Very helpful.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:17 PM   #15
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Those look to be the fingers of a really nice fellow!
Oh, those fingers might be yours! I collect photos for future use and forget where I found them. They come in handy when someone (or myself) is looking for information. It's a great picture - I have not seen a better one for showing the layers of insulation on the new trailers.

The photo sure stirred up some conversation!
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:45 PM   #16
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Whose-ever fingers those are, the photo is really helpful, so thanks for it!
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:51 PM   #17
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Whatever the 'R' value is--quick observation:
We have the insulation/thermal windows, but not the foam under the floor. We've been dry-camping at the kids' farm for the past several days. It has been in the upper teens/lower twenties Fahrenheit and breezy at night. The furnace has been running some, set at 67 deg. We've been staying toasty. Very little condensation, just a little on the frame of the front window.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:06 PM   #18
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Excellent, those conditions are often what we will be camping in, so it is nice to hear that your trailer is comfortable. Do you notice the floors being uncomfortably cool?
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:43 PM   #19
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Excellent, those conditions are often what we will be camping in, so it is nice to hear that your trailer is comfortable. Do you notice the floors being uncomfortably cool?
It is comfortable. We have bound carpet that fits from the bed to the dinette, and another piece that fits in the raised, u-shape dinette area. That helps a lot. And, we usually wear slippers in the trailer.

I'm sure it would be even better with the spray foam, but we didn't want to deal with that.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:52 PM   #20
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Thanks for the perspective. The conditions you are describing are what I would consider “shoulder season”. That’s good enough for me.
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