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01-16-2016, 05:45 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix Metro Area, Arizona
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Less clearance was mentioned, I believe.
Any chance of a photograph with step deployed?
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http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...step-3967.html
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01-16-2016, 05:56 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Standard versus Optional
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Standard options? And a price increase for all?
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Laura said "standard features" (not "standard options"), but then got into features which would logically be optional. I agree that features which are not universally considered worth the extra cost should not be part of the standard... although sometimes having too many variations in equipment is just not practical to build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
If an option is purchased on 80 or 90% of units sold , it makes sense to make the option standard and simplify the ordering and manufacturing process.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
The only problem with that is 10-20% of buyers would end up with features that they may not want, things like a/c. I like a la carte ordering and paying only for what you want.
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Both arguments make sense to me.
What auto manufacturers have worked out is the idea of a "delete option": a feature is standard, and included in the standard price, but buyers who don't want it can specify deletion, usually for a credit (although the credit is less than the value of the feature). For instance, at one point a basic radio was a delete option in many vehicles; currently the cargo box is a delete option on some pickup trucks (so the pickup is the standard model, and the cheaper/less-equipped cab-and-chassis is an option).
With this "delete option" approach, people are discouraged from not taking these features so manufacturing is as consistent and efficient as possible, but no one is absolutely stuck with features they really don't want.
I believe that Escape already informally offers some delete options, typically appliances (such as the refrigerator). Earlier in this discussion, Lawrence has already suggested one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
- toilet delete option
... largely specific to our use, of extended off-grid camping, so I don't see it as appropriate to make them standard (especially the last!).
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01-16-2016, 06:01 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Automatic Power Levelers
I'm not about to tell anyone whether or not they need these. What I can offer is an observation about the automatic power leveling based on experience with the system in my motorhome...
Mine is a typical hydraulic system; Escape would presumably use electrically powered BAL C-Jacks instead, as they would fit in the trailer much better, but the control issue is the same.
I find that our automatic system jacks the RV up too much; it can run jacks individually (actually in pairs) only while extending- they all must retract together. It tends to overshoot, and needs to compensate by extending the other pair as well. After one instance on our first major trip, I tried manually controlling the power jacks, and I found that could get the RV level with much less lifting of the RV. Since most of the benefit of these systems is in eliminating the effort of cranking, I think a manually controlled power jack system would be more than sufficient, cheaper, simpler, and probably more effective.
The jacks currently on Escapes are intended as stabilizers - the owner is directed specifically not to lift any part of the trailer with these jacks, as it risks bending the trailer. To work as leveling jacks, I believe that either the frame would need to be stiffer between the jacks, or a pair of leveling jacks would be needed immediately behind the axle(s), with an additional stabilizing pair closer to the bumper (to keep from tilting rearward as people move inside). This is easier with motorhomes, that have two axles nearer the ends and jacks close to them, rather than axles in the middle and jacks on the ends. Oliver offers power leveling jacks; their jacks are just behind the axle.
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01-16-2016, 06:03 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCnomad
larger toilet option (not round bowl)
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I agree. Without unnecessarily getting into anatomical details, an elongated bowl would be desirable for some owners. While this can be changed by the owner, it is annoying to pay for something that will just be removed and discarded, so a factory option would be better.
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01-16-2016, 06:07 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
The deeper the sink, the less storage in the cupboard under it.
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Yes, a good example of how every design decision is a trade-off. People have different priorities, and thus there is no single correct compromise.
I assume that "deep" in this case means larger vertically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
and the volume of water usage increases thus your capacity decreases....
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Jim, you do know you don't have to fill the sink, right?
Of course a very deep (in the vertical direction) sink is awkward to use because the user needs to reach down so far. I doubt we're talking about that deep.
A sink with more area takes more water to fill to the same depth, so if you need a certain depth (to cover something being washed?) then it does take more water. I do think that a sink can be too large horizontally, for this reason and for the balance with counter space.
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01-16-2016, 06:12 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Delete toilet. Optional bung.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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01-16-2016, 06:34 PM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Here is the Oliver step-
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01-16-2016, 06:37 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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If you put that step on an Escape, I think the first step would be an inch above the ground.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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01-16-2016, 06:44 PM
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#49
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin
Any downside?
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Have to cut off the top rear brace to install it on the standard ETI stringers. It wraps around them.
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
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01-16-2016, 06:46 PM
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#50
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
If you put that step on an Escape, I think the first step would be an inch above the ground.
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That depends on how level your camp site happens to be.
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
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01-16-2016, 06:48 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tractors1
That depends on how level your camp site happens to be.
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And, then there is the curvature of the earth...
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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01-16-2016, 07:06 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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There are so many options already that we could not get through all of the possibilities in many months. That's after owning another Escape. These options people want are often someone's particular interest or need, not required or even wanted by most.
They already do whatever sink or faucet you want. Can't do a sliding door that I know of on a 21' and doubt they want to do different doors on different models, but they might. Options often involve more trouble, more money, more weight, or all three, as said above. Don't think they have not looked at what is being mentioned. They usually know the considerations and they change the ones worth changing to standard features. They have already made some features standard that some did not want and could not get changed back or had to pay a bunch to change them back.
They have already had an amazing number of models and changes in only a few years. There are no other fiberglass trailer companies anywhere near close to doing what they have done. Your options are not our options, your likes are not our likes, your needs are not our needs, which is why we like having an Escape!
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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01-16-2016, 07:09 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Double thumbs up, Cathy.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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01-16-2016, 07:09 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue
Here is the Oliver step-
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The Oliver is much taller and much higher to get into which in one big reason we did not get one --- not the Escape doorway height. They absolutely need two steps for an Oliver. Our one step is fine for us now. Not sure two steps on ours would not just hit the ground.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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01-16-2016, 07:18 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Double thumbs up, Cathy.
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I'll second that - (does than make four thumbs up then - or 2 thumbs and 2 big toes?)
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
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01-16-2016, 07:49 PM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Personally, I trust Escape to decide for themselves what is standard, and what is optional. Let them decide which will give them the best product for them to operate a successful business selling. Why drive base prices up with a ton of stuff many don't want or need?
As consumers, it is great that Escape offers all the options they do, both those listed, and other custom ones. This is a scenario I much prefer over trying to meet everyone's needs with things as standard features.
This is not to say that folks should not make suggestions, I know they will listen to them all. I am sure I have had Reace's eyes rolling with a few of my own over the years.
I sure wouldn't want very many of the ideas posted. Power this and that, no thanks. Most of these items can be added by the owner themselves, and I do plan to do that myself.
Sure there are some things that everyone would like, such as redesigned cabinetry to better make use of existing and unused storage space, but to go much beyond what they do now would add to the costs. Like others, I have discussed using another wood species with Reace, but that would mean that the have to stock double everything from panelling to door/drawer fronts, something they really would have to plan and have space to do.
There are a lot of things I want to see different in my trailer, and I am going to get them. Of course, that means I will do most of them myself. I will get Escape to run wiring needed, and leave out a bunch of stuff I will finish myself, but I would never, ever expect Escape to do all what I want for me.
Once again I maintain that anyone could get the most basic model and to camping and make some wonderful memories. The rest is fluff. I like me some fluff, so I will be getiin' in meself.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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01-16-2016, 07:58 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Sacramento area, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21
Posts: 524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by float5
They already do whatever sink or faucet you want.
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Yes they do, and that's why I was able to ship a single arm spray faucet. I didn't word my request very well... I was looking for Escape to provide an alternate faucet as a factory option. From reading this forum, it looks like a lot of people have sent in their own faucet and/or sink. Having a factory option vs sending your own is really just a convenience thing and not a big deal. I didn't send a sink because of the shipping cost. If an alternate sink was offered I might have selected it. We're just listing ideas and nice to haves here, and that was one for me! I think the fact that it's such a nitpicky thing is a testament to the great variety of options Escape offers!
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01-16-2016, 09:12 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Trailer: 2015 21ft Escape "Spirit of the Plains", 2014 GMC Sierra with max tow package
Posts: 1,100
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Maybe folks think that more options should be standard equipment, but in doing it this way the customer really gets to customize their trailer and doesn't have to pay for a lot of unwanted options. And of all the things that ETI will do for you as extras, try that with most other trailer manufactures. I think they really have it pretty well fined tuned though the product is improving all of the time. I would have a very hard time finding something to complain about on our trailer. Loren
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01-16-2016, 09:18 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Windham, CT, Connecticut
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Posts: 188
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What would we talk about if they made all the options standard? Part of the fun of this forum is finding out what everybody else is doing and not doing.
__________________
Bill and Ann-Marie
Most injuries injuries in old men occur because they think they are young men!
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01-16-2016, 09:21 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bisonbill
What would we talk about if they made all the options standard? Part of the fun of this forum is finding out what everybody else is doing and not doing.
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Good observation. Ain't that the truth.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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