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Old 01-16-2016, 05:45 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Less clearance was mentioned, I believe.
Any chance of a photograph with step deployed?
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...step-3967.html
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Old 01-16-2016, 05:56 PM   #42
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Standard versus Optional

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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Standard options? And a price increase for all?
Laura said "standard features" (not "standard options"), but then got into features which would logically be optional. I agree that features which are not universally considered worth the extra cost should not be part of the standard... although sometimes having too many variations in equipment is just not practical to build.

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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
If an option is purchased on 80 or 90% of units sold , it makes sense to make the option standard and simplify the ordering and manufacturing process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
The only problem with that is 10-20% of buyers would end up with features that they may not want, things like a/c. I like a la carte ordering and paying only for what you want.
Both arguments make sense to me.

What auto manufacturers have worked out is the idea of a "delete option": a feature is standard, and included in the standard price, but buyers who don't want it can specify deletion, usually for a credit (although the credit is less than the value of the feature). For instance, at one point a basic radio was a delete option in many vehicles; currently the cargo box is a delete option on some pickup trucks (so the pickup is the standard model, and the cheaper/less-equipped cab-and-chassis is an option).

With this "delete option" approach, people are discouraged from not taking these features so manufacturing is as consistent and efficient as possible, but no one is absolutely stuck with features they really don't want.

I believe that Escape already informally offers some delete options, typically appliances (such as the refrigerator). Earlier in this discussion, Lawrence has already suggested one:
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- toilet delete option

... largely specific to our use, of extended off-grid camping, so I don't see it as appropriate to make them standard (especially the last!).
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:01 PM   #43
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Automatic Power Levelers

I'm not about to tell anyone whether or not they need these. What I can offer is an observation about the automatic power leveling based on experience with the system in my motorhome...
Mine is a typical hydraulic system; Escape would presumably use electrically powered BAL C-Jacks instead, as they would fit in the trailer much better, but the control issue is the same.

I find that our automatic system jacks the RV up too much; it can run jacks individually (actually in pairs) only while extending- they all must retract together. It tends to overshoot, and needs to compensate by extending the other pair as well. After one instance on our first major trip, I tried manually controlling the power jacks, and I found that could get the RV level with much less lifting of the RV. Since most of the benefit of these systems is in eliminating the effort of cranking, I think a manually controlled power jack system would be more than sufficient, cheaper, simpler, and probably more effective.

The jacks currently on Escapes are intended as stabilizers - the owner is directed specifically not to lift any part of the trailer with these jacks, as it risks bending the trailer. To work as leveling jacks, I believe that either the frame would need to be stiffer between the jacks, or a pair of leveling jacks would be needed immediately behind the axle(s), with an additional stabilizing pair closer to the bumper (to keep from tilting rearward as people move inside). This is easier with motorhomes, that have two axles nearer the ends and jacks close to them, rather than axles in the middle and jacks on the ends. Oliver offers power leveling jacks; their jacks are just behind the axle.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by BCnomad View Post
larger toilet option (not round bowl)
I agree. Without unnecessarily getting into anatomical details, an elongated bowl would be desirable for some owners. While this can be changed by the owner, it is annoying to pay for something that will just be removed and discarded, so a factory option would be better.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
The deeper the sink, the less storage in the cupboard under it.
Yes, a good example of how every design decision is a trade-off. People have different priorities, and thus there is no single correct compromise.

I assume that "deep" in this case means larger vertically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
and the volume of water usage increases thus your capacity decreases....
Jim, you do know you don't have to fill the sink, right?
Of course a very deep (in the vertical direction) sink is awkward to use because the user needs to reach down so far. I doubt we're talking about that deep.

A sink with more area takes more water to fill to the same depth, so if you need a certain depth (to cover something being washed?) then it does take more water. I do think that a sink can be too large horizontally, for this reason and for the balance with counter space.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:12 PM   #46
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Delete toilet. Optional bung.
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Screen Shot 2016-01-16 at 4.11.19 PM.png  
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:34 PM   #47
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Here is the Oliver step-
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:37 PM   #48
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If you put that step on an Escape, I think the first step would be an inch above the ground.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:44 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
Any downside?
Have to cut off the top rear brace to install it on the standard ETI stringers. It wraps around them.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:46 PM   #50
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If you put that step on an Escape, I think the first step would be an inch above the ground.
That depends on how level your camp site happens to be.
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Old 01-16-2016, 06:48 PM   #51
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That depends on how level your camp site happens to be.
And, then there is the curvature of the earth...
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:06 PM   #52
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There are so many options already that we could not get through all of the possibilities in many months. That's after owning another Escape. These options people want are often someone's particular interest or need, not required or even wanted by most.

They already do whatever sink or faucet you want. Can't do a sliding door that I know of on a 21' and doubt they want to do different doors on different models, but they might. Options often involve more trouble, more money, more weight, or all three, as said above. Don't think they have not looked at what is being mentioned. They usually know the considerations and they change the ones worth changing to standard features. They have already made some features standard that some did not want and could not get changed back or had to pay a bunch to change them back.

They have already had an amazing number of models and changes in only a few years. There are no other fiberglass trailer companies anywhere near close to doing what they have done. Your options are not our options, your likes are not our likes, your needs are not our needs, which is why we like having an Escape!
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:09 PM   #53
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Double thumbs up, Cathy.
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Here is the Oliver step-
The Oliver is much taller and much higher to get into which in one big reason we did not get one --- not the Escape doorway height. They absolutely need two steps for an Oliver. Our one step is fine for us now. Not sure two steps on ours would not just hit the ground.
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:18 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Double thumbs up, Cathy.
I'll second that - (does than make four thumbs up then - or 2 thumbs and 2 big toes?)
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:49 PM   #56
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Personally, I trust Escape to decide for themselves what is standard, and what is optional. Let them decide which will give them the best product for them to operate a successful business selling. Why drive base prices up with a ton of stuff many don't want or need?

As consumers, it is great that Escape offers all the options they do, both those listed, and other custom ones. This is a scenario I much prefer over trying to meet everyone's needs with things as standard features.

This is not to say that folks should not make suggestions, I know they will listen to them all. I am sure I have had Reace's eyes rolling with a few of my own over the years.

I sure wouldn't want very many of the ideas posted. Power this and that, no thanks. Most of these items can be added by the owner themselves, and I do plan to do that myself.

Sure there are some things that everyone would like, such as redesigned cabinetry to better make use of existing and unused storage space, but to go much beyond what they do now would add to the costs. Like others, I have discussed using another wood species with Reace, but that would mean that the have to stock double everything from panelling to door/drawer fronts, something they really would have to plan and have space to do.

There are a lot of things I want to see different in my trailer, and I am going to get them. Of course, that means I will do most of them myself. I will get Escape to run wiring needed, and leave out a bunch of stuff I will finish myself, but I would never, ever expect Escape to do all what I want for me.

Once again I maintain that anyone could get the most basic model and to camping and make some wonderful memories. The rest is fluff. I like me some fluff, so I will be getiin' in meself.
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by float5 View Post
They already do whatever sink or faucet you want.
Yes they do, and that's why I was able to ship a single arm spray faucet. I didn't word my request very well... I was looking for Escape to provide an alternate faucet as a factory option. From reading this forum, it looks like a lot of people have sent in their own faucet and/or sink. Having a factory option vs sending your own is really just a convenience thing and not a big deal. I didn't send a sink because of the shipping cost. If an alternate sink was offered I might have selected it. We're just listing ideas and nice to haves here, and that was one for me! I think the fact that it's such a nitpicky thing is a testament to the great variety of options Escape offers!
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:12 PM   #58
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Maybe folks think that more options should be standard equipment, but in doing it this way the customer really gets to customize their trailer and doesn't have to pay for a lot of unwanted options. And of all the things that ETI will do for you as extras, try that with most other trailer manufactures. I think they really have it pretty well fined tuned though the product is improving all of the time. I would have a very hard time finding something to complain about on our trailer. Loren
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:18 PM   #59
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What would we talk about if they made all the options standard? Part of the fun of this forum is finding out what everybody else is doing and not doing.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:21 PM   #60
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What would we talk about if they made all the options standard? Part of the fun of this forum is finding out what everybody else is doing and not doing.
Good observation. Ain't that the truth.
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