Winter camping

[davedru]

One more for you guys

I'm going to be winter camping / skiing quite a bit in this thing. I'm getting the extra insulation / windows - would it be a mistake not to get the heat tape as well?

Any other options that are a must have for the winter?

Thanks!

[rubicon327]

I know ETI has an option for 12V heat pads with the underfloor spray foam, but I thought I heard they would no longer do the heat tape/trace on the black and gray outlet piping. Either way, even though they are 12V you aren't going to run any of these items very long unless you are plugged in to shore power so that the batteries are being charged. I don't know where you ski but spots to plug in might be far and few between. In my experience the most practical (and worry free) solution is to have the trailer water systems winterized. Drinking water is kept in bottles inside and toilet can be flushed manually with some antifreeze. Any gray water from hand washing/dishes can be kept in a small pan in the sink and dumped. If you are planning to be fully functional (i.e. all water systems) in very cold temperatures you may need to adjust your expectations. I'm sure others with winter camping experience will weigh in.

[NW Cat Owner]

We were told that our trailer, completed end of November 2016, was the last one they were installing the heat tape on. We did get the heat pads installed as well.

[lancenadine]

Pay attention to the window frames. Ours is a 2015 model and while we were overall comfortable enough winter camping, the frames are subject to condensation which will drip on bedding, etc.
I've heard of attempts to insulate the frames but I do not know how well this turned out.

[padlin]

If I were using it for skiing I'd get the heat pads. I'd also try attempt to heat tape the area of the dump valves and get a heated fresh water hose setup. You could also get an optional 120vac outlet on the drivers side to power these.

We find we run a small electric heater as opposed to the furnace, although the furnace is nice to bring up the temp quickly. A couple of the folks have added a nice built in electric heater where it's out of the way, unlike mine. You could have ETI add a dedicated 120vac outlet in the appropriate area for such.

[float5]

Originally Posted by davedru

One more for you guys

I'm going to be winter camping / skiing quite a bit in this thing. I'm getting the extra insulation / windows - would it be a mistake not to get the heat tape as well?

Any other options that are a must have for the winter?

Thanks!

There is no telling what someone means by winter camping unless the lowest temperatures expected are given. There is the spray foam and heat pads you would need at a minimum but they may not suffice depending.

[davedru]

Good point- I would expect temps to be the 20's at night and occasionally dropping down into the teens.

I hadn't thought about an electric heater, but could see how that would be really nice at night sometimes....

Thanks again everyone

[float5]

I believe Reace once gave a temperature down to which the heat pads would work. Not sure it was clear whether he meant C or F. Perhaps someone has that but Escape can always be asked.

[cpaharley2008]

The heat pads are thermostatically controlled, you turn on the switch and once it gets below freezing they turn on, off at 40 degrees. Get yourself a heated water supply hose in case you find a cg with heated water supply. Otherwise keep the trailer water supply winterized and flush the toilet with rv antifreeze.

[richardr]

We are getting the heat pads and we asked about getting heat tape. We were told ETI no longer installs it. I'm planning on installing heat tape along my black and gray dump piping. I'm thinking of just running the tape down the underside of the pipe instead of wrapping it around the pipe. I would appreciate opinions on this.

[rbryan4]

Richard, did you get the spray foam insulation? It covers the pipes from the holding tanks as well as the underside.

[cpaharley2008]

The manufacturer of the heat tape may also help some advice on proper installation.....

[yardsale]

Originally Posted by davedru

One more for you guys

I'm going to be winter camping / skiing quite a bit in this thing. I'm getting the extra insulation / windows - would it be a mistake not to get the heat tape as well?

Any other options that are a must have for the winter?

Thanks!

We have been camping in Tretonia Idaho for the last three winters while skiing in Teton Pass. The easiest thing to do is dry camp and I can give you several ideas how to do that if you are interested. If you want to use the water systems, know that the biggest difficulty is keeping the dump valve warm enough to liquefy the gray water behind it. Dump a few gallons of pink stuff into the gray tank before you begin using such that you have mostly 100% pink stuff in the vulnerable section of discharge pipe outside the heated space. Keep cupbords open where there is access to fresh water piping inside. You are getting a 17A, right? If so use one of the "porta potty" systems that employ a bag with "Poo Goo" or similar material to solidify feces and urine. Place bags in an enclosed 5 Gal bucket for disposal in a dumpster when you can. Regarding condensation on windows, the new frameless windows might be better than the old style we have. We successfully solved the condensation problem by lining the inside of the frames with sticky back closed cell pipe insulation. Remember to leave the ceiling vent open an inch and perhaps a window to promote air circulation. It is good you have the 17' as Escape doesn't increase the furnace size as you go to bigger trailers. FYI we have dry camped at -23 F but I would't recommend extended camping in temps below 0 degrees F. If you are at all stationary, I think a skirt around the trailer with a heat source underneath would be a great addition. We're trying that next winter. Where do you ski?

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by richardr

We are getting the heat pads and we asked about getting heat tape. We were told ETI no longer installs it. I'm planning on installing heat tape along my black and gray dump piping. I'm thinking of just running the tape down the underside of the pipe instead of wrapping it around the pipe. I would appreciate opinions on this.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The manufacturer of the heat tape may also help some advice on proper installation.....

We gave ETI 50' of heat tape for our 21. They gave us back some, which I've never measured. But, I'd approximate at least 3'. It was wrapped around the pipes. I would think you'd want to wrap it around the entire pipe as any that's exposed would get cold.

When you call the company with questions they refer you to YouTube. That was about all the help I got from them when Reace called me with some questions. They said he could call them, but I don't think he got any additional information.

[cpaharley2008]

I'm sure you can find the right manufacturer who can answer questions about the proper installation of their product. There are dozens of heat tape companies, perhaps another one is more consumer orientated? Then use their info to proper install the tape from any of them. I doubt there are differences in the tape that would necessitate different installation instructions.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

We gave ETI 50' of heat tape for our 21. They gave us back some, which I've never measured. But, I'd approximate at least 3'. It was wrapped around the pipes. I would think you'd want to wrap it around the entire pipe as any that's exposed would get cold.

When you call the company with questions they refer you to YouTube. That was about all the help I got from them when Reace called me with some questions. They said he could call them, but I don't think he got any additional information.

There are several issues with heat tape

It comes in different watt densities
It is designed for different uses and areas
Some is self regulating and some is not and requires a controller.
Some types are approved for being cut to the desired length and some types cannot be altered..
Different types require different GFI protection.

Applying the wrong type or incorrectly installing heat tape on plastic piping can overheat and distort the piping or cause a fire.

I have about 100 ft of self regulating , high watt density , SS jacketed , hazardous location heat tape that costs $11 / ft.
Great heat tape but not suited for plastic drain lines.

If I was ETI , I would not take the chance hoping the customer supplied the correct product .
.

[skyfree]

For my 2017 17B, I got 9' of 5w/ft 12V heat tape from OEMHeaters.com. I'm getting some fiberglass pipe insulation from Grainger locally, which factored into OEMHeater's recommendation. The insulation has a 1" wall thickness which is about R-4. With that spec and a requirement for 0F (not going to be there if it's below that!), they said I only needed to run the tape straight along one side, which is about 6' of tape. I got 9' for some extra capability just in case.

This will be wrapped with 20mil PVC tape which I've used successfully before on roof racks for a hang glider wrapped with pipe insulation.

They also sell a thermostatically controlled 10A switch (SoliStat) that comes on at 35F and off at 45F.

I scraped off all the spray-on insulation on the pipes (easy). Note that there was a 1" gap on part of it because they could not get the spray directed between the body of the trailer and the top of the black tank dump pipe.

Yes, I know that the section between the valves will be exposed. That will get some spray-on (from a can) foam and the cable will run along that section as well.

So this will use 45w of 12v power, but will not be on continuously so I'm not too worried about running the batteries down. I'm going to wire in a small red indicator light to show me when it is on. The circuit will be switched just like the heat pads.

The heat pads use a ton of power but I don't anticipate needing those unless we are plugged-in because when it is that cold we will stay at places that have power, or I will use my Honda 2000 generator.

Regarding the window condensation, we camped below freezing already and the new frameless windows don't condense. However, the front one does because it is single pane framed (with rock shield). I'm going to try some reflectix between the rock shield and the window on the outside, but that's obviously not going to stop the condensation because the frame will still be conducting cold inside. Luckily the front one is at the small dinette and not over the bed.

[davedru]

Yardsale - thanks for the tips! Really good to hear from someone that had used these rigs in cold weather for skiing! The details are awesome, and generally we don't mind keeping it fairly minimalist in terms of water use to avoid more work.

We just moved up to Seattle from Utah. Super cool that all of the ski areas around here let you park RV's - some with hook ups if you want them. We used to have a stick trailer that had terrible insulation and we learned our lesson on the winter camping side... I'm stoked to take this thing up to Roger's Pass in BC this winter, and will definitely make a run back to Utah - maybe with a stop in the Tetons- one of my favorite places to ski. Ever skied 25 Short inside the park? Got to be one of favorite all time shots.

Getting pretty stoked to get this show on the road!

[davedru]

Does anyone know at what temperature you really need to start worrying about pipes freezing? Are the heating pads a must have?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by davedru

Does anyone know at what temperature you really need to start worrying about pipes freezing? Are the heating pads a must have?

I'll let my northern friends answer more definitively, but a cold snap at night won't do it. You need sustained temperatures below freezing before being concerned with the pipes. Now the water hose? That thing will freeze in a heartbeat.