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Old 09-14-2018, 11:30 PM   #21
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Off the Percocet. I only needed two.

Yesterday I got PRP and PL (Platelet Rich Plasma and Platelet Lysate) injected into my upper back and lower (lumbar) back. The doctor used tiny needles and injected many areas in ligaments, tendons, discs and other gooey stuff around my spine. I was under anesthesia but was still wide awake and could often feel little jabs. He used ultrasound to guide the needle and before each stick he would spray very cold stuff on the area to be stuck.

They took approx. 30 vials of blood (I lost count) on Wednesday afternoon and centrifuged it to separate the red blood cells, plasma and platelets and then loaded the platelets into several syringes. Early in the morning he did my cervical spine area and then started sticking larger needles into my hip (iliac crest) to suck out bone marrow for harvesting stem cells. Pretty sure they increased the anesthesia for that; I could still feel the needle jabs but not much pain. Then I waited for three hours (fitted the leg unloader braces) and went back into the procedure room.

Early afternoon I laid down and the doctor injected PRP and PL into my lumbar spine. Then my knees got the treatment. He used x ray fluoroscope and ultrasound to guide the needles into many areas of my knee including the ACL. PCL, transverse ligaments, etc. This was a mix of the stem cells, PRP and PL. The doctor happily told me they got 1.3 billion stem cells from my marrow. They need 400 million cells (preferred) for each joint so they had plenty. After the knee procedure he swabbed my two wrists and injected stem cells there. Very Happy so far! There were two orthopedic surgeons in the room watching the procedures and the surgeon from Taiwan also had his surgical assistant there.

Yesterday afternoon and evening was a piece of cake as I was in bed doped up on Percocet. Today has been a little more difficult, occasional heating pad use and a lot of difficulty getting the braces on and off. My knees do hurt but not enough for the narcotic and I haven't even tried regular Tylenol.. Absolutely Cannot use aspirin, Advil or Motrin, etc as they interfere with the stem cell healing. Also no ice packs, just occasional heat as the inflammation is causing the healing. I assume the pain and difficulty is much less than if I had knee replacement surgery.

On Monday I go back, get more blood drawn and get post injection injections to augment the healing. Then I just heal, get physical therapy and wear the leg braces for at least 6 weeks although they are of such good quality I plan to use them for hiking in the future. Here's hoping for an end to most of the gimpyness.
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:38 AM   #22
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Best of luck and stay positive 👍😎👍
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:12 AM   #23
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Steamboat Springs is a three hour drive for me. I have camped several times up at Rabbit Ears in the Dumont Lake Campground. Several good hiking trails and they are at 10,000 ft. altitude. We missed the Sandhill Cranes this year, hope you saw them. Also there is a new Alpine Coaster which I want to try but I totally forgot about it this trip. I'll have to go back soon. I go to the downtown pool mostly. There is a beautiful hike up the Hot Springs trail to Strawberry Hot Springs, though.
Hi just finished reading your stem cell procedure. Hoping all goes well for you with all your going through . My orthopedic doctor also can do stem cells but I am not a candidate for unfortunately .
I don't think we saw the cranes , there was numerous birds forgot the name though . We did see the hot air balloons in the morning and went to falls and sight seeing . We didn't have the trailer this trip were with family and stayed in Steamboat at a time share . Much needed trip for us all.
Realized among many things how much we need to get out more . Utah and Colorado were absolutely wonderful . Need to go back for sure . Take care Pat
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Old 09-15-2018, 01:38 PM   #24
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The clinic I am going to is the Centeno-Shultz Clinic located in Broomfield, CO and they developed the REGENEXX process, starting the emerging field of "Interventional Orthopedics" and are a teaching and research institution. If anyone is interested you can google them or google Regenexx, they have lots of information.

I went to an introduction meeting on August 16, made an appointment to see a doctor and got the ball rolling. I have been researching them for most of the year, thinking I would start procedures in early 2019 but I decided to move it up.
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Old 09-15-2018, 03:26 PM   #25
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The clinic I am going to is the Centeno-Shultz Clinic located in Broomfield, CO and they developed the REGENEXX process, starting the emerging field of "Interventional Orthopedics" and are a teaching and research institution. If anyone is interested you can google them or google Regenexx, they have lots of information.

I went to an introduction meeting on August 16, made an appointment to see a doctor and got the ball rolling. I have been researching them for most of the year, thinking I would start procedures in early 2019 but I decided to move it up.
Yes REGENEXX is what he does but this was for my shoulder and he couldn't help me with my issue . My knees , etc. could definetly use but the shoulder no . Pat
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:22 AM   #26
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For pain these products have helped us enormously. Next month we will be at the Barrow Neurological Institute for two laminectomies.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:10 PM   #27
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The clinic I am going to is the Centeno-Shultz Clinic located in Broomfield, CO and they developed the REGENEXX process, starting the emerging field of "Interventional Orthopedics" and are a teaching and research institution. If anyone is interested you can google them or google Regenexx, they have lots of information.

I went to an introduction meeting on August 16, made an appointment to see a doctor and got the ball rolling. I have been researching them for most of the year, thinking I would start procedures in early 2019 but I decided to move it up.
As a clinician (Occupational Therapist) I always want to know the effectiveness of a procedure before recommending to a client. Curious, I went to the Regenexx website to the research section and found the prominently displayed Headline "Our Recently Published Safety Research Paper is the Largest in the World". OK, so I read the study which concluded that the procedure was safe, but said nothing about how effective it was, and this is the study the website is featuring? Smelling a rat, I looked at another study purporting to address the effectiveness of the procedure. This second study did report some effectiveness, but the study itself is weak. There was no control group to compare what doing nothing would have accomplished. Critically important as we know much back pain resolves without any medical intervention.

This is not to criticise those who have tried the procedure and been happy with it. They are just being normal human beings suffering from a chronic condition who want to get better. The placebo effect is a real effect. It makes me mad when I see people profiting from it. Not saying this procedure is not effective. I am saying they have not provided sufficient objective evidence that it is. Let the buyer beware.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:20 PM   #28
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Web MD is a useful independent source for non technical information on diseases and their treatments.
https://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis...ment-or-hoax#3
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:20 PM   #29
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I have had a bad left knee off and on for past 10 years. I looked into shots into the knee and this company Synvis-One but I found out the ingredients were from parts from dead roosters. I decided my regimen of denial with beer will work instead.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:42 PM   #30
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A friend with RA for quite a while said she started making tea from cannibas leaves and then made ice cubes to put in a glass of water or? She says it doesn't make her high and has made a big difference.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:32 PM   #31
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I echo Yardsale's comments. There are little well designed clinical trials for these types of interventions, e.g. those that include a large number of patients, randomized into different treatment groups, compared against other therapies including a placebo group, and have no selection bias as to who received therapies. What studies that are available sometimes have reporting bias - selecting meaningless data that demonstrates a change but have no real impact on improving patient outcomes. It's hard to decipher all this, e.g. Bayer aspirin advertisements claiming benefit if you take a low dose aspirin a day; however, data shows for patients with no prior history of stroke or heart attack no benefit. If you are interested in evidence based medicine check out:Homepage – TheNNTTheNNT, or Healthy Skepticism
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:38 PM   #32
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It's hard to decipher all this, e.g. Bayer aspirin advertisements claiming benefit if you take a low dose aspirin a day; however, data shows for patients with no prior history of stroke or heart attack no benefit. If you are interested in evidence based medicine check out:Homepage – TheNNTTheNNT, or Healthy Skepticism

One must be careful with the source and the reporting of such studies.

I've seen several reports on TV about the low-dose aspiriin being of no benefit if you've not had a heart attack or stroke. However, I've had a stent placed in my leg and the surgeon told me I would have to take low-dose aspirin for the rest of my life - as a blood thinner. None of the reports I saw mentioned this application.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:53 PM   #33
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The NNT site provides a good review of low dose aspirin in patients who have a higher likelihood of having an event (see last paragraph): Aspirin to Prevent a First Heart Attack or Stroke – TheNNTTheNNT

It is worth sharing this with your physician to discuss risk/benefit.
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:57 PM   #34
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CNN reported yesterday the exact opposite
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/news...its/vi-BBNscbh
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:59 PM   #35
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For pain these products have helped us enormously. Next month we will be at the Barrow Neurological Institute for two laminectomies.
Hi Myron checking out the info you previously gave me . What is laminectomies ? Pat
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:43 PM   #36
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Since my Pfizer pension is based on the continued success of a company which "profits" from people suffering from chronic disease (and my Raytheon 401K benefits from making products which efficiently kill people who may or may not have chronic diseases), I just don't have the same qualms about using new technology. Having worked in the medical and medical device industry for many years it is my opinion that the FDA and their bureaucratic rules have killed far more Americans than they have ever helped. I am certainly not dumb enough to join a double blind, placebo controlled study where I might be unknowingly injected with saline and stuck in a control group. I could, however get knee replacement surgery and then join a lawsuit against the FDA approved manufacturer because almost all knee and hip replacement joints end up failing if the patient lives for several more years after surgery.

CBD and THC lotions and salves work very well and living in Colorado I don't have any problem getting them now that the government bureaucrats are prevented from blocking the sale. Still it is a cash only business and prices are not as cheap as they could be but the quality is very good. I have some but am not using it in case it interferes with healing from the stem cell and PRP/PL procedures.

Yesterday I had another 24 vials of blood taken, centrifuged into Platelet Rich Plasma and Platelet Lysate and injected into my knees. Also more synovial fluid was taken for the clinical trial. The worst pain is with the unloader braces because to unload the medial meniscus I have to keep it dialed up (pushing hard on the outside of my knees) Overall I am very happy with the process so far. No need for Tylenol which is the only pain reliever I am allowed to take for the next 6 months.
I have my first visit with the physical therapist on the 27th.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:00 PM   #37
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I googled this. Best to check with your specialist, or get a brief idea from healthline.com:
"A laminectomy is often done to relieve the effects of spinal stenosis. In this condition, your spinal column narrows and puts pressure on the spinal cord or nerves. Spinal stenosis may be caused by:
  • shrinking of the discs of the spine and swelling of the bones and ligaments, which both occur with aging
  • arthritis of the spine, which is more common in older adults
  • a congenital defect, or defect present at birth, such as abnormal growth of the spine
  • Paget’s disease of the bones, which is a condition in which bones grow improperly
  • achondroplasia, which is a type of dwarfism
  • a tumor in the spine
  • a traumatic injury
  • a herniated or slipped disc
"
It will be done on Nancy. The LaserSpine Institute also does it but only on an outpatient basis They rejected her last year because she didn't qualify as an outpatient.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:26 PM   #38
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Before you let them do any work make sure the doctor doing the procedure is a neuro surgeon not a doc that has had training for the procedure
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:24 PM   #39
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His resume reads "certified plumber, have wrench will travel," if that counts for anything.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:14 AM   #40
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I know a few surgeons--they are usually carpenters. It's the gastroenterologists that are plumbers
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