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Old 07-13-2016, 02:38 AM   #1
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19 Pickup Trip Report and Initial Impressions

We picked up our 19 (2016 version) on 6/27 and just returned home to Colorado after a two-week shakedown trip through the Cascades and Rockies.

Unfortunately, we did need to return to Chilliwack the day after pickup to address two issues that we noticed on our first night: (1) our opening kitchen window was not properly sealing closed (portion that opens wasn't sitting flush against the frame, and there was a good amount of daylight coming through one edge); and (2) water pump did not work properly from the outset (not shutting off at all, had varying pressure, and then stopped working entirely). ETI addressed these issues as quickly as they could (fixed the window alignment and replaced the water pump outright) and then we were on our way. The new water pump has been fine, although we are still having issues with the kitchen window (more on that below).

We spent the night of pickup at Silver Lake (great spot and relatively close to ETI, which proved useful), a couple of nights in North Cascades NP, then across to Missoula and then down into the Pioneer Mountains/Big Hole area of Montana. After that we spent four nights in Jackson/Grand Teton NP (where we camped near another 19 owner!), then down to Salida, CO.

My two small kids did their best to test the durability and functionality of the trailer for a family of four, and for the most part so far so good. We are lifelong tent campers and new to towing anything, but I thought some initial impressions could be useful to others:

- Towing was comfortable and intuitive using the WDH with a 2009 4Runner (V6), once we figured out the routine for massaging the ball into the coupler and setting up the WDH. That said, I have already been browsing for a tow vehicle with a V8. In a couple of locations, namely Teton Pass (which is admittedly very steep at 10%), we were straining. I'll try a couple of more local trips to see how the V6 holds up, but with four people and nearly all of our camping up the hill or over a mountain pass (or three), I may be evaluating other options.

- Kitchen Window- A few days after ETI fixed our opening kitchen window, the knob that opens it stopped working altogether and has prevented us from fully sealing the window closed (some air pulls it open a couple of mm when we drive). I talked to Reece and he is mailing us a new knob and screw, which he claims will fix the issue. I'm worried there is something else going on but will give ETI the benefit of the doubt until I try the new knob.

- Solar and dual 6V batteries are awesome. We didn't need to plug in the entire trip. This is a great option for us as we almost always camp in USFS or BLM campgrounds or dispersed areas.

- Three-burner stove with oven and hood vent have, been awesome, although we have yet to try the oven. Fridge and freezer compartment were also great (ice cream for days!) on both propane and battery power (although it definitely drains the batteries quickl on a hot day, even with solar panels in direct sun).

- Sleeping setup is comfortable for four. We bought the "cot" option but only used it one night before deciding that it wasn't worth the setup hassle as long as both of our kids fit comfortably on the dinette bed together. As an aside, the cot fits easily in a Yakima Rocketbox 11 without taking it apart. Also, be aware that when the cot is set up in the trailer and unoccupied, a three-year old can kick the sharp edge of a rail right out of the bracket and have it land on the dinette bed. Close call but trip to the ER averted!

- We always ran the Maxxfan on low with at least one window cracked at night and had no visible condensation the entire trip.

- The hose/shower head for the outdoor shower looks a bit industrial at first glance, but it works surprisingly well.

- The storage box is key for storing WDH components, blocks and chocks, the fresh water hose, and other miscellaneous tools. I wouldn't go without it.

- I am a big fan of my 1Up bike rack, which I have used for several years on our 4Runner with no issues. However, I was disappointed to find that I am not a fan of using the 1Up on our Escape, at least not with our current bike configuration (three bikes total, including two 29er MTBs with 2.2-2.5 tires and one kids bike). I can post more in the 1Up thread, but the basic reason is that the bikes seem to jostle around much, much more than when the rack is mounted behind our car. This resulted in direct contact between the end of my handlebars and the back of the trailer (even with the rack mounted as far outboard as I felt comfortable), damage to the bikes caused by contact with each other, and on three occasions 29er wheels slipping entirely out of the arms that secure them in place. After these incidents I gave up and moved both 29ers to the roof rack (where fortunately I already had two bike trays) and just kept our daughter's bike on the 1Up at the back of the trailer. I would guess that smaller wheels or narrower tires are more secure in the 1Up arms, making this less of an issue.

- Minor niggles and areas of monitoring: After seeing some daylight through the door edge one morning, I adjusted the rubber seal a bit manually to close the gap. We'll see how that holds up. Also, on one windy night the wind whistled through the edge of the emergency exit window a bit. I have not had a chance to inspect that area. Finally, the screen door is already starting to tear vertically out of one corner.

Despite these minor issues we are very happy with our 19 and look forward to many more miles and nights. Thanks for reading, and for all of the information I received here before purchasing.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:04 AM   #2
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Congrats on your new Escape, and nice write up!

We have a 2017 21' on order... and I got a bit concerned when you mentioned that your tug - a 2009 4Runner (V6) - was underpowered at times.

I gave that vehicle a quick Google and the internets tell me you have 236 HP.

Our tug will be a Acura MDX with tow package, and it has 300 HP.... I know that HP is not the only measure of power & towing ability, but 300 HP is much more than 236 HP, and .... even with a 21' (weights more than a 19') I am assured by ETI that we'll be fine towing....

and I know that we won't be in mountains tons, and we are not full timing, so I am confident that we'll be fine... especially as i bought a tongue scale, and will be very careful to pack light and to load right.

Good luck with your small issues (sorry to hear of them) and... enjoy!
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:02 AM   #3
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canyonrider, I had more fun reading about your young and active family! Your 19 will be the perfect platform for many, many adventures. Sorry about the issues though
Hopefully they will all be resolved in short order.....too much fun to have
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:46 AM   #4
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Canyonrider, good info, great story!
Did your trailer pass the quality inspection? I thought they have a person in place now to inspect every trailer before it goes?
Of course the person can miss some errors...... Just wondering
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:39 AM   #5
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canyonrider, sounds as if you had an awesome first trip! Nice route.

The 4Runner as you may know is a new generation from right after yours, and not the same at all, but if you are into mountains much, you probably want something else.

There may be some who use electric for the refrigerator while boondocking but most use propane. Glad to hear it was working well for ice cream!

May you have many more great days in your Escape.
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:58 AM   #6
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Hiya.


Re: 1up. Yep the fulcrum point of a trailer is a tricky thing. I vaguely remember them having fat bike/fat tire accessories on their site? Might be worth a look.

I haven't had trailer rubbing on my solo 26" set up, which may/may not have to do with it being the "super heavy duty" carrier (whatever they call it). Also remember that 1up rates the RV use at two bikes max.


Good luck bro.
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonrider View Post
- I am a big fan of my 1Up bike rack, which I have used for several years on our 4Runner with no issues. However, I was disappointed to find that I am not a fan of using the 1Up on our Escape, at least not with our current bike configuration (three bikes total, including two 29er MTBs with 2.2-2.5 tires and one kids bike). I can post more in the 1Up thread, but the basic reason is that the bikes seem to jostle around much, much more than when the rack is mounted behind our car. This resulted in direct contact between the end of my handlebars and the back of the trailer (even with the rack mounted as far outboard as I felt comfortable), damage to the bikes caused by contact with each other, and on three occasions 29er wheels slipping entirely out of the arms that secure them in place. After these incidents I gave up and moved both 29ers to the roof rack (where fortunately I already had two bike trays) and just kept our daughter's bike on the 1Up at the back of the trailer. I would guess that smaller wheels or narrower tires are more secure in the 1Up arms, making this less of an issue.
Not sure what is up here. I have had someone follow me with the 1UP behind my trailer with a 29" and 26" bike aboard, and they reported that it was rock solid.

If you have the arms adjusted long enough, I can see no way that a 29er would come off the rack, it just seems impossible. I have not used it for a fat tire bike, but my brother has borrowed it and used it for that with no problem.

Do you have any photos with it set up on your trailer?
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:08 AM   #8
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Congrats on the new 19! We stayed at Silver Lake Park last May and thought it was pretty- and wish we'd had our kayak that we bought a week or so later. I see you skipped the A/C too- who needs it when you're off-grid so much Like the location of the outdoor shower above the belly band- much more convenient than the stock location down low on a 21. What kind of WDH did you get?

This is probably the first report of any issue with a 1UP bike rack here; I see on their website a fat tire spacer kit for 3.1-4.9 so your 2.2/2.5 tires should not be a problem. Can you imagine using any other rack back there though? The pendulum effect is pretty severe. You might try some more experimenting with it while one of you follows behind.

You wouldn't be the first or last to move up to a beefier tow vehicle. The confidence from having one makes travelling much more enjoyable as it requires less work not having to manage the RPM's so much.
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
Congrats on your new Escape, and nice write up!

We have a 2017 21' on order... and I got a bit concerned when you mentioned that your tug - a 2009 4Runner (V6) - was underpowered at times.

I gave that vehicle a quick Google and the internets tell me you have 236 HP.

Our tug will be a Acura MDX with tow package, and it has 300 HP.... I know that HP is not the only measure of power & towing ability, but 300 HP is much more than 236 HP, and .... even with a 21' (weights more than a 19') I am assured by ETI that we'll be fine towing....

and I know that we won't be in mountains tons, and we are not full timing, so I am confident that we'll be fine... especially as i bought a tongue scale, and will be very careful to pack light and to load right.

Good luck with your small issues (sorry to hear of them) and... enjoy!
Horsepower is the only factor that determines how fast you get up hills actually. Torque determines how many RPM's you need to run to get enough HP to go your desired speed up the hill. A 2017 MDX has 290 hp and 267 ft-lbs of torque. A 2009 4Runner v6 has 236 hp and 266 ft-lbs of torque. The 1gr-fe v6 in the 4Runner has a performance curve that gets pretty flat above 4,200 RPM, so most people will be doing long climbs at around 4,000. That kind of RPM sounds a bit alarming to most people, so it's not that comfortable of an experience.

The MDX has more hp, but at 4,000 RPM it's an almost identical 200 hp to the 4Runner, so you will have to rev even higher to get up the hill any faster.

As a comparison, our Touareg TDI has only 225 hp but 406 ft lbs of torque. That higher torque means it develops about 200 hp somewhere around 2,700 rpm. Most of the time we are cruising at 1800-2000 rpm, so not much difference when climbing hills, which is very comfortable. Technically I'm not getting up the hill any faster than you guys are though.
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:19 AM   #10
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Congrats on your new trailer.

Here is what we did to fix our 1 UP issues:

We pull the hitch out about an inch and half.

Bought a StowAway hitch tightener: https://www.amazon.com/StowAway-Carg...eceiver+u+bolt

We mount the 29er closest to the trailer with the front tire facing the driver’s side with the inboard crank arm against the spare tire cover. (Our Escape tire cover has holes worn thru because of this, but our rear window is intact).

I made the comment of our bikes handlebars coming into contact with the back window on an earlier post. On our maiden voyage bringing our trailer home it wasn’t an issue until we hit the frost heave sections in the Yukon. On the rough road sections the there was enough sway with the carrier that I saw marks in the dirt on the back window that the handle bar was hitting the window. Pulling the rack out an additional inch or so with the crank arm against the spare tire solved the contact problem.

Next problem we had was that over time on rough roads that the screw holding the bike rack into the receiver would loosen up and the rack would move in and out. That is where the StowAway solved the loosening, movement issues. Unfortunately this makes moving the rack from trailer to tow vehicle more difficult, so we tend to leave the rack on the trailer for the camping season and use the pickup bed for shuttle runs. Scott

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Old 07-13-2016, 11:31 AM   #11
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canyonrider...nice review...look's like you didn't go for the AC option, of course Colorado is pretty nice for camping without AC!

sounds as if a new trailer buyer should plan on circling the reservation (ETI) for at least a few days to make sure everything is okay with the trailer before departing BC...perhaps ETI might consider reserving campsites at this Silver Lake campground for each days trailer production if reservations are required.....
hopefully ETI QC will improve even with the increased production rates and the pressure to squeeze out a few more trailers every day..
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Old 07-13-2016, 11:40 AM   #12
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Thanks for the comments. Marry- I believe our trailer did go through quality control, at least based on the "QC" notation on the final bill of sale. My impression is that kitchen window is something that should have been caught during that process, as the misalignment of the lower flap and gap was visible from the exterior. But the water pump may have been working fine at the factory, who knows. It was very finicky, ETI tried multiple adjustments to no avail before deciding to replace.

Our WDH is the standard setup offered by Escape and seems to work well. Dennis did the setup and was very helpful.

Re the 1Up, I'll try and take some pictures later this week of the setup we were using. Interesting to hear that 1Up recommends two bikes max for RV use. I did not know that, but now it makes total sense. We do have the "heavy duty" version, and the tray closest to the bumper has the fat bike kit installed (I have a fat bike that wasn't along with us on this trip).

The issue with the 29er seems to be the overall diameter of the wheels and tires (which is increased somewhat by wider, high volume tires). This gives the arms less wheel to grab onto, if that makes sense. I also think this is exacerbated on my bike, which has an XL frame and fairly slack head angle (67 deg.), making for a long wheelbase. This has been completely solid on the back of the 4Runner (and with my XL fat bike as well), but seems to be pushing it on the back of the trailer.
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Old 07-13-2016, 12:02 PM   #13
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Old Skool, thanks for the additional comments on the 1Up. Sounds like the same issue. In our case, I first saw similar marks on the window (but no damage) from my handlebars. My handlebars are fairly wide, so I moved the rack outboard a bit in the hitch and swapped my wife's bike to the most inboard position. But then her handlebars hit the vinyl window frame, leaving small indentations that fortunately appear to just be cosmetic. Then, I tried leaving the inboard tray completely empty and putting my wife's bike on the roof rack. This solved the trailer contact issue, but I still had my front wheel getting loose from the arm on the 1Up.

Your solution with the crank arm pushed against the spare tire is a good one, I may try that with my wife's bike on the inboard tray and our daughter's bike on the second tray (and remove the third tray altogether). Alternatively, I may just use the 1Up for kids bikes, and keep our 29ers on the roof.
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Old 07-13-2016, 01:47 PM   #14
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First trip in the 19

We picked up our trailer on July 19 and drove home to Castlegar. It pulled quite well over all the passes. The trailer was empty but the truck(2010 Tacoma) was loaded. We then spent the week filling the trailer with all the necessities of camping plus some. Then we hit the road seriously for a kayak/painting trip to the East Kootenays. Once we hit Radium Hot Springs we were onto logging and mining roads which were dusty when dry and muddy when wet. Our camping spot was Horsheshoe Rapids on the Kootenay River which was half a kilometer down a steep, rutted four wheel drive track. The trailer went down and up slowly without a problem. The clearance is excellent on the Escape. We set up camp right on the river and began to appreciate all the comforts and conveniences. The bed is fantastic. The awning kept us protected in the rain. The outside shower was ideal for a quick shower or rinse. The fridge worked perfectly and we never went low on power.
Okay, there was one problem. The water pump will not stop running, which I have read about from others all year, so we constantly had to hit the kill switch. I have tried everything including shaking the pump and all lines. We will have to suffer with this until September when we will pass by ETI again. Otherwise, we are happy campers.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:29 PM   #15
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Horsepower is the only factor that determines how fast you get up hills actually. Torque determines how many RPM's you need to run to get enough HP to go your desired speed up the hill.
...
A 2009 4Runner v6 has 236 hp and 266 ft-lbs of torque. The 1gr-fe v6 in the 4Runner has a performance curve that gets pretty flat above 4,200 RPM, so most people will be doing long climbs at around 4,000. That kind of RPM sounds a bit alarming to most people, so it's not that comfortable of an experience.
I agree, but I would say (based on several discussions over the years) that most people should be doing those climbs at around 4,000 rpm to get the performance they want, but most are not willing to do that so they use a higher gear and are disappointed by the performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyfree View Post
As a comparison, our Touareg TDI has only 225 hp but 406 ft lbs of torque. That higher torque means it develops about 200 hp somewhere around 2,700 rpm. Most of the time we are cruising at 1800-2000 rpm, so not much difference when climbing hills, which is very comfortable. Technically I'm not getting up the hill any faster than you guys are though.
That's the result of turbocharging.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:11 PM   #16
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We picked up our trailer on July 19 and drove home to Castlegar. It pulled quite well over all the passes. The trailer was empty but the truck(2010 Tacoma) was loaded. We then spent the week filling the trailer with all the necessities of camping plus some. Then we hit the road seriously for a kayak/painting trip to the East Kootenays. Once we hit Radium Hot Springs we were onto logging and mining roads which were dusty when dry and muddy when wet. Our camping spot was Horsheshoe Rapids on the Kootenay River which was half a kilometer down a steep, rutted four wheel drive track. The trailer went down and up slowly without a problem. The clearance is excellent on the Escape. We set up camp right on the river and began to appreciate all the comforts and conveniences. The bed is fantastic. The awning kept us protected in the rain. The outside shower was ideal for a quick shower or rinse. The fridge worked perfectly and we never went low on power.
Okay, there was one problem. The water pump will not stop running, which I have read about from others all year, so we constantly had to hit the kill switch. I have tried everything including shaking the pump and all lines. We will have to suffer with this until September when we will pass by ETI again. Otherwise, we are happy campers.
I have camped at Horseshoe Rapids recreation area several times while paddling on the Kootenay River. It is located in a great spot for ending a first days paddling and beginning a second day. The access to the campground is indeed poor. I had thought about bringing my 19' the last time we were out (last labour day weekend), however, I didn't really like the idea of traversing miles of potholed forestry road to get to the access point, driving through a forest of tree branches that could scrape the sides of my shiny Escape on the way in, or the very limited space for turning around my FJ and 19' at the river. Kudos to you for taking your Escape in there.
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:41 AM   #17
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update

I thought I would update this thread now that we have spent some more miles and nights with our 19.

- ETI sent me a new knob for the opening kitchen window as promised. It mostly works now, but still doesn't seem to perform 100% as it should. The knob disengages and spin freely for several turns after the window opens 1-2 cm, then does the same thing at that point when closing. Also, the seal/alignment of the opening portion of the window is better than when we first received the trailer, but is still uneven. Maybe I'm being picky, who knows. Reace has told me that he will be contacting Hehr, so we'll see.

- The replacement water pump has been great. Furnace and hot water heater have also worked well.

- We had an issue with the fridge not wanting to run on propane when camped in cooler weather and at high altitude (10,000 ft), I'll post a separate thread on that question.

- The 4Runner has been spending more time over 4,000 rpm than I would like (and in some cases over 5,000 rpm for brief periods), so I'm still thinking about a new tow vehicle!

- Abandoning the 1Up for trailer use for now. I already have a roof rack setup for up to four bikes, and if I am going to be taking one or two bikes on the roof I might as well put all of them up there and entirely avoid the risk of bike and trailer damage from the 1Up. I'll still use the 1Up for non-trailer purposes, it's a great rack otherwise.

Overall a great trailer so far, our family has been loving it. In hindsight I might have paid more attention to how the 2017 redesign improves the door and window seals, but I don't think it would have been a deal breaker (especially given the greater cost of the 2017).
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:26 AM   #18
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Hi Geoff,

Can you please fill in more details on your concerns for the trailer use of your 1Up? I just started using one and have been very pleased with mine. Perhaps Im missing something.

Thanks,

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Old 08-16-2016, 06:29 AM   #19
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I thought I would update this thread now that we have spent some more miles and nights with our 19.
Glad to hear you're enjoying the trailer Geoff. As for the fridge issue, you'll note in the Dometic manual that they say the fridge performance will be degraded and may not work on propane at all when at a high elevation. It's a direct result of lower atmospheric pressure and reduced oxygen levels.

Having said that, I would also check the burner and make sure there's no debris, and check the output pressure from your regulator to make sure it's putting out at least 11" WC pressure.

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Old 08-16-2016, 07:22 AM   #20
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Glad to hear you're enjoying the trailer Geoff. As for the fridge issue, you'll note in the Dometic manual that they say the fridge performance will be degraded and may not work on propane at all when at a high elevation. It's a direct result of lower atmospheric pressure and reduced oxygen levels.

Having said that, I would also check the burner and make sure there's no debris, and check the output pressure from your regulator to make sure it's putting out at least 11" WC pressure.

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Hi: rbryan4... In 2014 at the ETI Customer Appreciation Rally, Reace came around and adjusted our regulator. They were setting them for Chiliwack's sea level and found it to be somewhat low on average. That was after changing out our water heater's electric switch made backwards in China. Great customer service!!! Alf
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