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Old 06-12-2019, 11:15 AM   #1
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Condensation on framed vs frameless windows

Hi all...

Has anyone out there in Escape-land had a trailer with framed windows AND had a trailer with frameless windows? Our 2016 19 framed windows create A LOT of condensation when we are anywhere other than the southwest in the fall or spring.

We're considering moving to a 21 and are wondering if frameless windows remove this problem. Do frameless windows create condensation too?

If you were ordering a new Escape now, would you choose framed or frameless windows (based strictly on functional considerations, not aesthetic).

Thanks!
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:31 PM   #2
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I hope that there are useful replies based on experience, but I'll just note that the "frameless" windows have fixed and moving frames, just like "framed" windows... but the "frameless" frames are covered on the outside by a layer of somewhat insulating glass. Also, the framed windows are sliders while the "frameless" are top-hinged, so they're different designs (even aside from the feature of the glass overlapping the frame).

If the concern is condensation on the frame, the frame design is relevant; if the concern is condensation on the glass, the use of double panes (called "thermal" windows) versus single panes seems like the only relevant comparison.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:49 PM   #3
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Thanks Brian. In our 19, the frame itself seems to cause more condensation than the glass... and boy-howdy, do they cause condensation! I'm hoping the frameless windows may mitigate that issue... if so, we may consider getting frameless in spite of the concerns we have with the frameless (1. can't open windows under arms of manual awning when closed; 2. windows "flapping" while moving; 3. windows only open max ~3 inches).

Curious to hear from folks who have experience with both.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:51 PM   #4
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Condensation is always a problem with trailers. Thermal windows help but if you cook and use propane then you will have to use the fans to clear out the moisture. Our last trailer had aluminum framing and when we were camping in damp cold weather we had to wipe even the walls if we were not using the gan to exhaust the air. We are picking up our 5TA in Aug and hope that with the extra thermal additions we will reduce this issue. You will never stop it unless you use a dehumidifier. Breathing , sweating, cooking and coming in with wet cloths all add more moisture than the air can handle and it has to go someware.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:53 PM   #5
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My frames inside would sometimes have frost on them while camping with the framed windows, even framed thermopane windows. The metal frames seemed to bring he cold inside, similarly to what happens when you use aluminum vs vinyl windows in a residential application. When you heat up the trailer, then you have drips all around the windows. With the frameless windows there is definitely less even none with most of the interior window frames. I have had 2 Escapes with framed and 2 Escapes with frameless, the frameless are my current choice.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:08 PM   #6
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Very helpful. Thank you!
Do your frameless windows open while traveling?
Do you find that the frameless allow for adequate airflow even though they only open ~ 3 inches?
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:46 PM   #7
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We have a 2017 19' with the frameless windows. We do get some condensation but mainly on the front non-frameless window inside frame. We found that leaving the windows on either side of the table slightly open the the ceiling fan on 10% was enough to keep a little air moving and pretty much no moisture. So we do that pretty much anytime we camp hot or cold to keep a little air moving.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:47 PM   #8
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Condensation on framed vs frameless windows

Like Jim, we have owned Escapes with both framed and frameless windows, thermal double panes in both cases. Like you, Stephanie, we also experienced a lot of condensation on the frames of the framed versions. The frameless perform much better in our experience, and we would get them again in a heartbeat. We've had no issues with knobs loosening during travel, and don't find the limited opening objectionable, but do greatly appreciate being able to open them in all weather conditions due to the awning design. The only complaints we have with the frameless was that we also got one of the improperly manufactured small ones in our kitchen, which delaminated and ETI replaced under warranty.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:50 PM   #9
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With the exception of the single pane front window in my 17, both trailers has the extra insulation package, with framed windows in the 17, and frameless windows in the 21. The only window I ever had condensation on was the front in the 17. I do have the advantage (at least as far as moisture generation) of traveling solo without pets.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclifrickson View Post
Like Jim, we have owned Escapes with both framed and frameless windows, thermal double panes in both cases. Like you, Stephanie, we also experienced a lot of condensation on the frames of the framed versions. The frameless perform much better in our experience, and we would get them again in a heartbeat. We've had no issues with knobs loosening during travel, and don't find the limited opening objectionable, but do greatly appreciate being able to open them in all weather conditions due to the awning design. The only complaints we have with the frameless was that we also got one of the improperly manufactured small ones in our kitchen, which delaminated and ETI replaced under warranty.
Excellent information. Thank you.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
With the exception of the single pane front window in my 17, both trailers has the extra insulation package, with framed windows in the 17, and frameless windows in the 21. The only window I ever had condensation on was the front in the 17. I do have the advantage (at least as far as moisture generation) of traveling solo without pets.
Good point about the pets. We have two adults and 3 dogs. Lots of hot air!
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
With the exception of the single pane front window in my 17, both trailers has the extra insulation package, with framed windows in the 17, and frameless windows in the 21. The only window I ever had condensation on was the front in the 17. I do have the advantage (at least as far as moisture generation) of traveling solo without pets.
and you travel to the southwest warm areas while the rest of us freeze our butts off, you are fortunate.....
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:59 PM   #13
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We have 2 dogs that travel with us also. Re;windows opening, I had one coming home open, but I think it was not closed before leaving. Either way, I cut some pipe insulation and placed the pieces on the knobs, now they will stay shut regardless. As far as ventilation, we got the extra window over the short stack with that and the kitchen, there is cross ventilation near the bed area especially during rainy weather.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:01 PM   #14
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I have had both types of windows in my two Escapes. The framed sliders used to seem worse than what I get with my frameless awning windows. Obviously the condensation happens in colder weather, and we found that about 11C (52F) is the coldest we could let it go at night or the condensation on the window frames became overbearing, starting to run and drip at night. We did give them all a quick wipe when we got up and turning up the temperature. This was in the 19 and we did not have solar so was closely watching our electricity usage on a cold weekend.

With the frameless on our 5.0TA part of the reason they might no get as much condensation is that we now have solar and are not concerned with the electricity usage of the furnace fan and only lower the nighttime temp to 14C (57F) at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
With the exception of the single pane front window in my 17, both trailers has the extra insulation package, with framed windows in the 17, and frameless windows in the 21. The only window I ever had condensation on was the front in the 17. I do have the advantage (at least as far as moisture generation) of traveling solo without pets.
You cheat and camp in mostly warm climates.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:16 PM   #15
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I was wondering why we do not get condensation on the windows, then I say Jim B's post. We keep the trailer pretty warm around the clock in cool/cold weather, like 63ish at night.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:23 PM   #16
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When camping in rain on the Oregon coast, condensation would form on our 2016 19' Escape with framed sliding windows. This has not been the case on our 2018 21' Escape with frameless awning style windows.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I have had both types of windows in my two Escapes. The framed sliders used to seem worse than what I get with my frameless awning windows. Obviously the condensation happens in colder weather, and we found that about 11C (52F) is the coldest we could let it go at night or the condensation on the window frames became overbearing, starting to run and drip at night. We did give them all a quick wipe when we got up and turning up the temperature. This was in the 19 and we did not have solar so was closely watching our electricity usage on a cold weekend.

With the frameless on our 5.0TA part of the reason they might no get as much condensation is that we now have solar and are not concerned with the electricity usage of the furnace fan and only lower the nighttime temp to 14C (57F) at night.



You cheat and camp in mostly warm climates.
Hey, we got below freezing twice last winter! Of course the 20% humidity didn't hurt...
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
Hey, we got below freezing twice last winter! Of course the 20% humidity didn't hurt...
LOL. That explains your tough edge.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:12 PM   #19
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I concur with NCopp's experience, yet with our 19'er purchased in Dec '18. We have thermal, frameless windows, EXCEPT the front one under the rock guard cover which appears to be single pane with a large metal frame. Wife, doggie and I have camped down to probably the low 20's - yes, we have the ETI insulation package including the tank heaters - and the only window which showed significant condensation around the frame is that front window. I wipe it off with a towel first thing after getting out of bed in the morning. I've since insulated the front window cover with "reflexite" - that silver covered "bubble wrap" purchased at Home Depot. We haven't camped below 30 deg since so I don't know if it'll help the condensation much. Probably not, since the frame really isn't covered much with the reflexite, mainly just the glass. I can't express an opinion about Escape's non-frameless windows, but I know in our 2007 Scamp all the framed windows' frames would have significant condensation when cold camping.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:59 PM   #20
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We have the frameless windows on our 2018 21. We have camped all over the Pacific Northwest, often in rainy weather as we will camp in the shoulder season. We have 2 labs in the trailer with us as well. If it's really cold and/or damp or we've brought in wet jackets and wet dogs, we will turn the furnace on to 20C for a blast. So far, we have not had any issues with condensation. We have the manual awning, but it's worked fine for us with the frameless windows. The dinette area has more than enough ventilation with the three other windows open if the awnings in, but you still get the day light. The emergency window in the dinette area opens considerably wider. We have the bathroom window as well that's affected by the awning arm, but you can actually still open it with the awning arm in enough to get some fresh air into the bathroom. When we first got our trailer, we had issues with some of the windows coming open during travel. We asked Tammy about it, and she said we probably weren't shutting them tight enough. We were being cautious because of the separating issues we had heard of. Since we've started closing them a little tighter, no issues. If we'd known about the 'secret' option that wasn't listed at the time we ordered, we'd have gone with the window above the stack of drawers across from the kitchen counter too for daylight.
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