Costly Beauracratic ignorance Rant

[stephen99]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Me too! When I went into the tax office with all the paperwork needed, the clerk said I needed a VIN inspection report. I politely asked to call the Texas DMV to be sure and she discovered that I didn't on a new trailer. She thanked me for learning something new and then told me I owed taxes on the base cost of the trailer. Huh? She said "what is the cost of the trailer without any accessories" and explained the AC/dual batteries/inverter/etc. were accessories. WHOO HOO! So we looked up the base price for the 21', she converted it to US dollars based on the exchange rate when it cross the CAN/US border, and I left after paying my taxes with a BIG smile on my face.

Sometimes life is really good!

Man, you scored.

[Kare]

Glade to hear that Texas handle it better than some of the other states.
Kare

[Kare]

Steven M so you had problem with plates and registration also?
Kare

[Mike & Donna]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Me too! When I went into the tax office with all the paperwork needed, the clerk said I needed a VIN inspection report. I politely asked to call the Texas DMV to be sure and she discovered that I didn't on a new trailer. She thanked me for learning something new and then told me I owed taxes on the base cost of the trailer. Huh? She said "what is the cost of the trailer without any accessories" and explained the AC/dual batteries/inverter/frameless windows/etc. were accessories. WHOO HOO! So we looked up the base price for the 21', she converted it to US dollars based on the exchange rate when it crossed the CAN/US border, and I left after paying my taxes with a BIG smile on my face.

Sometimes life is really good!

Same here, I paid taxes on the base price of the Escape 19 in USD. Escape showed the base price payment in US funds on the Bill of Sale and it was accepted by the DMV with no problem. I paid the sales tax and recieved my license and registration three weeks before I drove to Canada to take delivery of my trailer. Go figure.

[cpaharley2008]

The practice of base vehicle only came into existence when Toyota, Mazda,Honda, Subaru started importing their vehicles a long time ago. As a means of keeping the vehicle $$$ tariffs less, they would import as parts the dealer installed accessories which were then installed in your vehicle. Why it rolled over in Texas for rv's is unknown??

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The practice of base vehicle only came into existence when Toyota, Mazda,Honda, Subaru started importing their vehicles a long time ago. As a means of keeping the vehicle $$$ tariffs less, they would import as parts the dealer installed accessories which were then installed in your vehicle. Why it rolled over in Texas for rv's is unknown??

It didn't "roll over" to Texas. The sales tax law is clear. Sales tax in Texas on an RV (or any other vehicle for that matter) is based on what you actually paid on the bill of sale, not a base price. Those who had it calculated on the base price just lucked out.

Trying to figure out what process you will encounter in Texas is like nailing Jello. Everything depends on the clerk, and that varies wildly from office to office or even counter to counter within the same office. It's like that in many other states as well.

My best advice is to do your own homework on the State website and have everything ready. Oftentimes you have to guide them through the process or point out errors - although, I would only point out errors if they weren't in my favor.

The OP's case is different from all that. They just had a clerk that had no concept of what a simple thing like an exchange rate was, and were ripped off because of it. Of all the issues I've seen documented about getting it licensed, this was the most ridiculous.

[cpaharley2008]

I was merely giving some historical credence to the practice of using base price, that is all. I agree some lucked out, sort of like finding money on the floor in a bank, do you say nothing or turn it?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I was merely giving some historical credence to the practice of using base price, that is all. I agree some lucked out, sort of like finding money on the floor in a bank, do you say nothing or turn it?

Yeah, but more like someone puts money in your pocket at the bank. Didn't even have to pick it up.

[cpaharley2008]

This brings up an interesting ethically topic, when you see someone making a mistake, in your favor, do you say anything? Like when the waiter brings you the wrong receipt and it is a lot less than yours, do you point out the error. Or during the self checkout the register fails to read an expensive item, do contact someone for help or continue to check out? Morals and ethics are on trial everyday no matter where we look!!

[C&G in FL]

I think incompetence and/or ignorance is being assumed here. While the correct or competent reaction of an “unknowing” low level clerk and/or his/her supervisor SHOULD always be to call the parent agency when encountering a questionable scenario, we must bear in mind that almost 100% of the customers they service are requesting routine services (issue me a renewal of my vehicle registration, or register my new vehicle). In reality, how often do they hear “I’ve bought an RV in Canada and I haven’t yet taken delivery, but I want to title and register it so that I have tags for my return trip home from the point of delivery?”

If, as Robert has stated the process in Texas is like “nailing jello,” it really isn’t the fault of the local DMV office; it is the failure of the Texas DMV to recognize there is this infrequent situation which arises and a neglect on their part to issue clear instructions to their local offices. In the absence of defined rules and well trained employees glitches will continue to exist.

Perhaps anyone ordering a trailer from ETI should write a letter to their State’s DMV asking for a response on letterhead, signed by a high-ranking official. The letter might start “I’ve read a bunch of horror stories.....” Armed with DMV’s response, the registration process would be clearly delineated. Furthermore, the various State DMVs might realize they have a “problem” and address it.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

This brings up an interesting ethically topic, when you see someone making a mistake, in your favor, do you say anything? Like when the waiter brings you the wrong receipt and it is a lot less than yours, do you point out the error. Or during the self checkout the register fails to read an expensive item, do contact someone for help or continue to check out? Morals and ethics are on trial everyday no matter where we look!!

True enough, but those examples are easy. The waiter would probably be penalized if you're paying a cheaper bill, because of the lower tip. Have it corrected. The self checkout is even easier. Can't take an item without paying for it.

But hey, if the state insists that my sales tax is lower than I calculated, I ain't arguing.

[War Eagle]

Under the "no good deed goes unpunished" heading, when I was in high school, and a bit of an academic nerd, I pointed out to a teacher how he had wrongly added points when grading everyone's test - to the advantage of us students. He looked at my exam, agreed, corrected my exam by lowering my score, but stopped there. All my classmates got to keep their "bonus" points. The test points didn't bother me, but what did bother me was the teacher's attitude about me pointing out his mistake. I don't remember what the exam was about, but I do remember the lesson the teacher tried to teach me that day - that honesty doesn't pay. Didn't work! I still believed in honesty. I just didn't believe in him anymore....

[Iowa Dave]

Some teachers were great people who understood students, the system , and the true task at hand. Others not so much. Students, through the structure of the education system usually believed all teachers were competent at the time. It wasn’t until college level that my generation learned to distinguish. In the 50 plus years since high school I’ve thought of this often. Most of those teachers are gone now, good and not so good. Fortunately for me, I got numerous chances to talk to and thank many of the good ones. Even worked for one when she was on the Recreation commission. I’m not especially proud of it but I did run into a few over the years and reminded them they were not fair or especially competent. Life goes on.
Iowa Dave

[P&L]

I agree, there are teachers who have a calling for this endeavor and those who don't. I imagine the better teachers opt for other careers.

I believe teaching starts in the home. I watch my daughter walk with her girls and she has several teaching moments about nature, science, and even arithmetic with her 3 and 6 year olds. These girls are showing great and true interest and curiosity about the world around them and will have opportunities to become better citizens.

[Tford]

Fortunately I bought my TA used from Colorado! But my local property tax entity looked at my house plans after I built and rounded up the sq ft dimensions that were 0.5, thereby taxing square footage that doesn’t exist. When I asked, they replied “that’s the way decimals are rounded to the nearest whole foot”. I asked if they paid all their grocery bills up to the nearest dollar and whether their computers were so antiquated they couldn’t handle 2 decimal places...that fell on deaf ears as well....

[Iowa Dave]

We’re watching our 10 month old grandson this week. He’s just starting to form words. It’s our fervent mission to make sure his first real word is “bear” . My wife taught for 25 years, She is adamant that teaching begins at home. Whether it’s knowledge, ethics, behavior and the many other components of becoming a good citizen.
Iowa Dave

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Tford

Fortunately I bought my TA used from Colorado! But my local property tax entity looked at my house plans after I built and rounded up the sq ft dimensions that were 0.5, thereby taxing square footage that doesn’t exist. When I asked, they replied “that’s the way decimals are rounded to the nearest whole foot”. I asked if they paid all their grocery bills up to the nearest dollar and whether their computers were so antiquated they couldn’t handle 2 decimal places...that fell on deaf ears as well....

Might want to point that out next time you register a vehicle or pay the property tax and it is not an even dollar amount and is less than $.50. Ask them if they round down, too, or only round up when it is in their favor....

[Iowa Dave]

The cost of our Escape license was based on square footage. I told the lady the inside dimensions on the 19 were 7 by 15 feet. The cost break was at 100 Feet. She put 99 square feet on the registration. Charged us that category. Then we got the 21 . Gave her the new dimensions, she charged us the next category up. I think it was $9.00 a year more. I love living in a rural county. They are aware that there are lots of people cutting corners like moving plates from trailer to trailer, especially home made ones. So when you’re honest with them they are very cooperative and go out of their way to take
care of you. They do have rules and like the I’s dotted and the T’s crossed. Works for us.
Iowa Dave

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

We’re watching our 10 month old grandson this week. He’s just starting to form words. It’s our fervent mission to make sure his first real word is “bear” .
Iowa Dave

I can almost guarantee that his first word will be "ball".

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I think incompetence and/or ignorance is being assumed here. While the correct or competent reaction of an “unknowing” low level clerk and/or his/her supervisor SHOULD always be to call the parent agency when encountering a questionable scenario, we must bear in mind that almost 100% of the customers they service are requesting routine services (issue me a renewal of my vehicle registration, or register my new vehicle). In reality, how often do they hear “I’ve bought an RV in Canada and I haven’t yet taken delivery, but I want to title and register it so that I have tags for my return trip home from the point of delivery?”

The rarity of this situation is the very reason that the clerk - if genuinely ignorant of the correct procedure - should have contacted a more experienced for staff member for assistance. This wasn't a matter taking a best guess and moving on - the problem was clearly identified and explained by the customer, and response was arguing rather than seeking assistance.