Do you think you need a/c?

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I think anyone considering battery-powered air conditioning should look at one document from Dometic, whether or not they are interested in a system sold by Dometic:
[]

Nice unit but carrying 8 Group 31 batteries Don't think it has much of a future for use in a trailer.

Ron

[DiamonDiver]

These are the solar panels I want to mount on the roof

PowerFilm - lightweight, thin, flexible solar panels

It could be cleanly installed while maintaining the esthetics of the escape and actually improve the aerodynamics of the trailer.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by DiamonDiver

These are the solar panels I want to mount on the roof

PowerFilm - lightweight, thin, flexible solar panels

It could be cleanly installed while maintaining the esthetics of the escape and actually improve the aerodynamics of the trailer.

Kind of low wattage for their size.

[tractors1]

Nope, not paying $15-$17 bucks per watt at full output power. Way too spendy for me.

[Ron in BC]

There might not be as much free, unobstructed area on the roof as you think. Also, and my main reason for not wanting roof mounted panels is that having had solar panels for many years I've found that they do need cleaning from time to time. You'd be amazed at the film of fallout that accumulates and must reduce output.

Ron

[DiamonDiver]

Flexible thin film solar panels are becoming more common and I expect the cost to decrease and become more cost efficient than rigid panels. The golf cart style panels can be snapped into place and are easily removable for storage. Panels similar to these are available for about $1.25 / watt. Controllers, wiring and switch gear push the cost to slightly over $4.00 / watt fully installed.

They may not have the power density of rigid panels, but the ease of handling might make that a moot point. Any solar installation has serious cost benefit questions. From a purely cost perspective you can't beat the small generators now available, but cost isn't the only reason we consider solar.

The solar part of my project would be the last part and might not happen for several years as panel power density and cost improve on this still emerging technology. Charging batteries is the easy part, I already own several suitable generators, although I would prefer solar for the noise and emission advantages. I imagine that even with a proper sized solar array there would still be occasion to use a generator to top off batteries.

I expect this camper project to take several years for completion and to evolve over time. I appreciate all the comments and input. There is incredible experience on this forum and I intend to take full advantage of it.

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

There might not be as much free, unobstructed area on the roof as you think. Also, and my main reason for not wanting roof mounted panels is that having had solar panels for many years I've found that they do need cleaning from time to time. You'd be amazed at the film of fallout that accumulates and must reduce output.

Ron

I watch the charge current readout on my solar controller and if it seems a bit low I just hose them off and run a push broom across them, then rinse again with a hose. Takes maybe 3 minutes a couple times a year........

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by tractors1

I think standards require a roof escape hatch.

Not unless it's a very recent standard. Neither our 2002 trailer nor our 2010 motorhome (built in the U.S., so compliant with U.S. and Canadian standards) has a roof hatch.

Originally Posted by tractors1

A side emergency exit wouldn't help if the trailer fell over on that side, so I think 2 are required on different surfaces.

That makes some sense, but it only means that with the door as primary exit, the alternate exit (of an Escape) would need to be at the rear, the front, or (most practical for the bunk area of a 5.0/5.0TA) the street side. On the other hand, unless we're worried about tornadoes, falling on it's side seems like a minor concern for a trailer which is not occupied while in motion.

A bigger concern is that there be an exit which doesn't require passing the likely sources of fire, which I suppose would be the kitchen and furnace. An emergency exit anywhere in each end with a bed would be suitable in this respect.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Nice unit but carrying 8 Group 31 batteries Don't think it has much of a future for use in a trailer.

The point is that the information is not just applicable to the Dometic system. Any battery-powered A/C system would have similar energy requirements, and the resulting large battery bank. This is one reason that that I think anyone planning such a system should read this.

Yes, the weight of batteries will make this unacceptable for most travel trailer owners until something like lithium batteries become affordable. Another problem is that while long-haul trucks are on the road and charging the batteries for more hours a day than the air conditioner is running (as explained in the article), travel trailers routinely spend days in camp (even at unserviced sites) before driving... and even then may not see a long driving day for charging.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by DiamonDiver

I was thinking of something like this for the A/C

MasterFlux - Products - Condensing Units

Interesting - I had not heard of a DC "outside" unit before. That would have the advantage of not needing an inverter, but would need to run from a converter when AC power is available. It does look awkwardly shaped compared to the truck units.

If using a dedicated battery bank, it would make sense to me to go with the 48V model, with four 12V batteries in series, keeping current down and keeping the batteries balanced.

Originally Posted by DiamonDiver

Or this

Cool-It 12 Volt Air Conditioning System - Tiger Tool Inc.

That looks similar to the Dometic system. The compressor may run directly on 12V, although their "details" are short on, well, details.

Originally Posted by DiamonDiver

I feel comfortable building a FG enclosure to attach to the rear of the trailer over an extended bumper. I'm not concerned about GVWR, I have a 3/4 ton 4wd tug that recently towed a 14K 5th wheel through the Rockies from Arizona to Montana.

My concern is not with the truck's GCWR (there's always a bigger truck available), or even with the trailer's GVWR (although one gets closer to that with a few hundred pounds of batteries); it is with the stability of the trailer with a major mass added to either end, but especially to the rear. There is always the frame to consider, although an Escape's 1.5"x3" rectangular steel tubing runs right out to the bumper.

Originally Posted by DiamonDiver

Another thing is that no matter what this rig eventually cost it will be cheaper than a boat.

Ah yes, that hole in the water which one attempts to fill with money.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Not unless it's a very recent standard. Neither our 2002 trailer nor our 2010 motorhome (built in the U.S., so compliant with U.S. and Canadian standards) has a roof hatch.


That makes some sense, but it only means that with the door as primary exit, the alternate exit (of an Escape) would need to be at the rear, the front, or (most practical for the bunk area of a 5.0/5.0TA) the street side. On the other hand, unless we're worried about tornadoes, falling on it's side seems like a minor concern for a trailer which is not occupied while in motion.

A bigger concern is that there be an exit which doesn't require passing the likely sources of fire, which I suppose would be the kitchen and furnace. An emergency exit anywhere in each end with a bed would be suitable in this respect.

Every Truck Camper I've seen has an escape hatch over the bed in the cab over area which is pretty much identical to the bunk area in the 5.0's.

The drivers side rear window on the 5.0TA is also an escape door.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Not unless it's a very recent standard. Neither our 2002 trailer nor our 2010 motorhome (built in the U.S., so compliant with U.S. and Canadian standards) has a roof hatch.

I think Brian is correct in that there is no established standard or requirement.

Floyd does not have an escape hatch in his Scamp 13. He told me Scamp did not want to build it without one, and he told them he would not buy the trailer if they insisted upon installing one.

Back at the beginning of this thread when I raised this issue, my thought was that ETI might refuse to eliminate the hatch. If someone were to die as a result of a fire and a hatch was not in place, it could be a serious liability issue. That's not to say that the victim would have survived had an escape hatch been in place; it's just how things play out in a courtroom.

When I investigated the possibility of moving the propane QD to the rear of the trailer on my upcoming build Reace strongly resisted for safety concerns which, when he explained his reasons to me, made sense. My thought was that if it were to the rear away from the door it would be further away from foot traffic, reducing a possible tripping (over the propane hose) hazard. I agreed to leave it in the standard just in front of the door. Not trying to put words in Reace's mouth here, but my impression is that he would not agree to do something that he perceives as unsafe.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by padlin

Every Truck Camper I've seen has an escape hatch over the bed in the cab over area which is pretty much identical to the bunk area in the 5.0's.

It does make sense to me to have a roof vent over a bunk loft, and it also makes sense to use it as an escape hatch, especially in RVs (such as truck campers and the Escape 5.0/5.0TA) which have a short sidewall in this area. I'm not surprised that it is very common to have a roof escape hatch; I just don't see any reason that it would be required.

DiamonDiver has his reasons for not having a roof hatch, and it seems like a reasonable choice to me. We'll see if it is acceptable to ETI.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Not trying to put words in Reace's mouth here, but my impression is that he would not agree to do something that he perceives as unsafe.

That's my impression, too. It is one reason to choose Escape.

[DiamonDiver]

Many valid points. The weight at the rear of the tow, propane tank location, 48 volt Vs. 12 volt compressor systems.

I've thought long and hard about these before I originally posted. I believe that the best place for the aircon compressor and condenser is where the propane tanks are currently located, propane would be relocated to the tow vehicle with an off board installation. Once the trailer is parked, they could be stowed under the 5th wheel deck.

I would probabrly install a quad 12 volt batt 48 volt compressor or a 24 volt system with 2 twin sets of 12 volt batts. 24 volt would be easier to find control components, it is very common in marine installations.

As far as the weight aft is concerned, if a utility box can't be mounted on the rear of the trailer the bicycles and grill will go there. If the frame is as strong as I think it is it shouldn't be a problem to put that much weight there on a two axel trailer, if need be I can ballast forward. keeping the trailer within allowable weight limits of course. One nice thing about the big Ram is that I have a lot of wiggle room on the tongue weight compared to many of the smaller TVs

Once I get more details on the trailer weights and limits I can properly engineer any modifications. Axel capacity, max GVRW of the trailer and tongue weight can all be taken into account for component and cargo placement.

[C&G in FL]

In any event, I hope you get exactly what you want when all is said and done.

[MyronL]

I have heard good and bad things about the Dometic Duo-Therm Penguin 11,000 BTU air conditioner ETI installs. Since I am now considering buying one, and installing it myself, I was wondering how you who have it on their roof like it.

Please feel free to vent.

[padlin]

Does the trick very well, but it's also very noisy.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by padlin

Does the trick very well, but it's also very noisy.

But, aren't they all, in such a small space? Even the fan in the stove hood sounds like a jet engine.

[tractors1]

Works for me. Much quieter than the one I had in a Casita.