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Old 09-04-2016, 11:38 AM   #1
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Escape 19 or 21?

Hi folks, we have narrowed down our search to an Escape 19 but after researching this site I noticed there are at least a few people who have upgraded from the 19 to the 21. One thing that would keep us from upgrading to the 21 would be that the queen size bed in the 19 is a high priority for us and as far as I can see, the bed in the 21' is smaller. Can you get a queen bed in the 21? For those who upgraded from the 19 to the 21, could I ask why you made the move?

For the foreseeable future we would be towing with a 2008 4x4 4Runner with the V8 and standard towing package which specifies a 7000# limit, so I am not sure if my TV would be insufficient for a 21. From reading posts on this forum I am under the impression that my TV would handle a 19 with no problem but on that long trip back, what are some thoughts on needing sway or weight distributing hitch equipment? I've towed a 3500# boat before for considerable distance and had no issues.

We are a couple in our 50's, of average build and height and would be using the camper for weekend or week-long trips with one dog. Our maiden voyage would be from the east cost out to BC with the 4Runner to return with the camper so I would like to leave with a margin of safety when we do.

Being the planner that I am, I have also wondered if it's possible to rent a 1/2 ton extended cab pickup locally for the approximate 6k mile excursion, just to have something newer for the long trip.

I have other questions as well but thought I better keep it simple on this first inquiry.

I really have enjoyed reading the forum so far, so thanks for all the wonderful input from all of you.

John in Portsmouth, VA
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:50 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhorsenva View Post
Hi folks, we have narrowed down our search to an Escape 19 but after researching this site I noticed there are at least a few people who have upgraded from the 19 to the 21. One thing that would keep us from upgrading to the 21 would be that the queen size bed in the 19 is a high priority for us and as far as I can see, the bed in the 21' is smaller. Can you get a queen bed in the 21?
No, there's no queen in the 21. BUT, it's pretty wide, and to be honest, I don't think those extra couple of inches in width would make much of a difference. Go with the floorplan you like, and that meets your needs. Some much prefer the 21 because there's no "crawl over" when exiting the bed. You can just scoot down to the foot of it and get out/in. We on the other hand prefer the 19 because we like the bed "tucked away" instead of being there as you come in the door. Your choice. Of course, the 21 is larger, has a larger dinette, and more storage and counter space as well.

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Originally Posted by Ironhorsenva View Post
For the foreseeable future we would be towing with a 2008 4x4 4Runner with the V8 and standard towing package which specifies a 7000# limit, so I am not sure if my TV would be insufficient for a 21. From reading posts on this forum I am under the impression that my TV would handle a 19 with no problem but on that long trip back, what are some thoughts on needing sway or weight distributing hitch equipment? I've towed a 3500# boat before for considerable distance and had no issues.
If you have 7000 lbs of towing capacity, the 21 would be well within that. But, you'll want to know your Gross Combined weight rating, and you'll want to pay attention to the payload capacity of your tow.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:01 PM   #3
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I think the 21 bed is 54x80, or what's sometimes called a full wide by queen long. We flopped down on Dave & Kathies 21 when we were considering 19/21 decisions and found it worked fine for us, and I'm 6-1, 195 lbs.

The crawlover issue becomes more of an issue with getting older - something to consider.

Our road weight is 4220, but I believe the base 21 is a heavier now. Our Taco does fine with it (6400 lb rated)
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:11 PM   #4
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the 21' having the bathroom in the front means there is more "aisle" width (4" I think) that makes moving about feel easier in a 21'

plus i think that means the bathroom in a 21' is a bit bigger.

plus the lack of crawl over in a 21' is a must for us. makes for better and easier sleep.

plus we dont mind the bed being near the door. some might

plus we like the dinette at the rear. further away from campsite road. more likely looking at the view.

plus the 21' is not much more $

the 21' weight increased less than the 19' did for the 2017 models, i believe.

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Old 09-04-2016, 01:23 PM   #5
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21

For us the21 being only $1500 or so more you get a window over kitchen cabinet and 4 in. more aisle room bigger counters and more storage the weight is only 400 lb or so and 1 and 1/2ft more . For me i would have gotten the 5 TA but my wife does not like trucks
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:14 PM   #6
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I went from a 19 to a 21 and now back to a 19. Several reasons being that when the 21's when first introduced they were offered at the same price as a 19 and with Escape's holding their value I was able to sell my 19 for what it cost me. Other than sales taxes, registration and delivery it was almost no cost to me !!!(it is called government math).

Then when the newer style trailers were offered with price increases I sold my 21 for what a new fully optioned 19 costs (then again I still have to pay sales taxes) but I'm driving out for pick up. I was initially thinking of the 5,0 TA but the hitch issue and truck bed plus weight kept me away.

I like the bed surrounded with awning windows and better insulation and the front dinette surrounded with awning style windows. Bath is smaller, but I'm only in it 15 minutes a day.
Plus I can now see around the trailer with my mirrors and pulling maybe 4-500 lbs less weight.
For 2 people it is fine, if you have children you may want the bigger model.
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ironhorsenva View Post
One thing that would keep us from upgrading to the 21 would be that the queen size bed in the 19 is a high priority for us and as far as I can see, the bed in the 21' is smaller. Can you get a queen bed in the 21?
The width of the bed in the 21' fills all of the available space between the outside street-side wall and the interior wall along the side of the bathroom, so there is no way to fit in a wider bed.
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:48 PM   #8
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I'm in Molded Fiberglass trailers because I believe in smaller, similar to the tiny homes movement that is happening now. When we got our first Escape 17b we saw we could have small and very comfortable. Kinda like the three lil pigs, the 17 was too small for us, the 21 was too big for us, and the 19 is just right.... Love having the full Queen bed in the back, crawl over is a non issue for us, and when it comes time to wash/wax I don't want any more trailer to maintain at my advancing age. Everyone has different needs/wants but those are ours. Good luck with ur decision...
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:50 PM   #9
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The difference in width is 6", about the same as the length of a US dollar bill. If you each normally sleep right up to the edge of your queen, you'd each miss 3" by getting the double in the 21'. Also no crawl over in the middle of the night.


All this is easy for me to say, I sleep on a twin in a queen loft!
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:52 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ironhorsenva View Post
For the foreseeable future we would be towing with a 2008 4x4 4Runner with the V8 and standard towing package which specifies a 7000# limit, so I am not sure if my TV would be insufficient for a 21.
That's literally a ton of towing capacity extra, although the real answer is not quite that simple...

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If you have 7000 lbs of towing capacity, the 21 would be well within that. But, you'll want to know your Gross Combined weight rating, and you'll want to pay attention to the payload capacity of your tow.
Yes. Fortunately, the 7,000 pound towing capacity means that the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR; allowed total weight of 4Runner and trailer, both with contents) must be at least 7,000 pounds more than the curb weight (empty but ready-to-drive) of the 4Runner. That means that if the trailer is never more than 5,000 pounds, there is still at least a ton (2,000 pounds) left to GCWR... so a ton of passenger and cargo. A 4Runner can't really carry a ton, because the payload capacity is not that high.

Payload capacity is the difference between the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR; maximum allowed weight of 4Runner with everything it is carrying) and the curb weight. I agree that this is the rating to watch, and the limitation for many vehicles considered for a 21'. Remember that the payload includes all people, cargo in the trailer, and a few hundred pounds of trailer tongue weight carried on the hitch.
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Old 09-04-2016, 03:32 PM   #11
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We really like the way the interior is laid out in the 21 versus the 19. On the 19 all the cabinetry is lined up one wall. With the 21 when you enter you view the bed in the far corner with the window over the bed and the end table at the end of the bed providing a feeling of space.

We have a custom bed made by Southern Mattress and it fits wall to wall (we have no condensation issues). At home I sleep in a king but on the road our full size bed in the 21 is always big enough. I think the comfort of the bed in more important than the size of the bed.

If I was back home in Williamsburg and not out camping on the Tetons I'd have you over to look at ours.

John
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Old 09-04-2016, 03:53 PM   #12
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The "no crawl over" bed argument drives me nuts. I've had RV's with beds like the 21 and I'm not the least bit convinced that the crawl in from the end of the bed is any more convenient than the 19 side entry.

Think about it, to get out you first have to move the covers down aways. Then you have to crawl down to the end of the bed or, as some seem to do, "scoot" Presuming the 19 has two occupants, one of them gets a free ride getting out of bed and maybe, in some cases, only one of the occupants needs to get up during the night. Sorry, used both types extensively and I don't believe crawling in from the end is superior.

I like the layout of the 19. Period, full stop. The only way I could be tempted by a 21 would be if it was a stretched version of the 19 layout.

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Old 09-04-2016, 04:03 PM   #13
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We've had two campers in which one person had to crawl over the other person to get in and out of the bed. HATED IT! That's why we have a 5.0 TA. We liked the 21, also, because of not having to crawl over, but liked the layout in the fifth-wheel better.
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:07 PM   #14
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My two cents: It all depends on what type of camper you are. Do you like to spend time inside or outside.
Are you planning on making meals, doing dishes and read your book in the trailer, go for the 21. Bigger countertop, bigger dinette, nicer view in the back with the lower windows.
Are you more the outside type, then I would recommend the 19. The flow of the floorplan, not having to pass the person in the kitchen ayle going to the dinette, is for me the big plus for this layout.
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:17 PM   #15
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We headed for Chilliwack 2 years ago this month with us being sure we were going to order the 19. But we wanted to be sure to order the trailer that was correct for us and that meant comparing all of the models side by side. We were in the 19 first and then looked at the 21. I think it was the extra counter room and wider isle that made the difference. We also like the bigger bathroom but had to compromise for the smaller bed. I also wanted less behind the truck but told myself, what is 2 more feet. It's what works for us but everyone has different wants and needs and has to choose what will work for them. How about one of those huge fifth wheel trailers that weigh over 13,000 pounds? Loren
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:30 PM   #16
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This will never been 100% one better than the other when comparing sizes of beds. It's more about who you are and what is important to YOU. Comfortable sleeping is really paramount when buying a trailer... of any brand. Who wants to camp and sleep uncomfortable? May as well sleep in a tent on an air mattress (done that) or car camp (done that too).


I looked beyond that.... I knew whatever trailer I bought, I'd figure out comfortable sleeping. What WAS important to me, was the kitchen counter space because I knew I would be fixing food inside due to NOT wanting to worry about the weather, nor drag extra cooking implements from home to cook... when everything was available inside the trailer.


Aren't we all glad ETI builds different layouts for the wants/needs of different people? I am...
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:12 AM   #17
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19 vs 21

We also picked the 21 because we would like to use this as our get away from the Florida Humidity and heat in the Summer months .We wanted about a 20 ft trailer to maneuver in our yard but an extra ft. is not going to matter . Having had the 18ft. Lil Snoozy we figured a few more feet would be just right (sleeps 4 instead of 2)
Also we loved all the counter space and all the cabinets in the 21 . If we just wanted to use for weekend use and a few weeks at a time a 19 would have been fine but for extended periods the bigger the better and to each his own . good Luck in your Quest for the perfect trailer for your use JIm
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:01 AM   #18
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I did consider the issue of having to crawl over someone, especially with the 19 and that may be more of an issue with extended use. I think for us, it would be ok though. Most of our trips will be for a weekend and occasionally a week and between the two of us, I'm the only one who gets up more than once a night. Later on when we retire, I could see the desire for more room and comfort for much longer trips and maybe even full time, if life permits. Our last RV was a Winnebago which had the walk around bed but that and the additional space we had elsewhere came with all the added drive train maintenance and worries which I am really looking forward to be absent in the next unit.

If we do end up with the 19, I'm sure we wouldn't have a hard time selling it and moving into a 21 since demand is high for these units.

I'll review this thread more than once, along with all the other good information on this site, so I appreciate all of of you for your input.

Thanks,

John
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:12 AM   #19
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On the 19 all the cabinetry is lined up one wall.
John, can you help me understand what you mean here? There's cabinetry all around on the 19 (unless you're not counting the kitchen cabinets, etc).



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Old 09-05-2016, 09:57 AM   #20
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We had an EggCamper where you, (make that I), had to crawl "over" from the side; now, in our 21', I have to crawl up from the foot of the bed. I prefer the side entry to the bottom entry, but the difference in effort and convenience really isn't significant. The width of the bed isn't an issue with us either. Personally, I like the layout of the 19' better than that of the 21', but my wife, being somewhat claustrophobic, found the 19' too "tight" for her comfort. The extra 4" of overall width, combined with the end bath gave a feeling of openness that made all the difference to SWMBO.
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