Escape meets Ollie

[Mucram]

This is scary. Even know who posted this before looking brianbp!!!!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by skyfree

She always liked that trailer better than the truck camper we had for a couple of years, which is one of the big reasons we are getting an Escape.

Not surprising. The Eclipse Milan Lite (I'm assuming yours was a T21) is a very nice looking trailer inside and way more livable than a truck camper.

[tidewater]

Since I'm the one that threw this thread off-track, let me amend the post.

I should have looked up the Bulldog coupler I installed instead of relying on my porous memory. I used a Bulldog Collar-lock A-frame coupler with the high profile latch, 2 5/16". It's about $79. at e-trailer, not $50. as I posted.

Why? I didn't feel comfortable with the little sliding latch on the original coupler used by Bigfoot and kept feeling around the greasy ball to make sure it was latched. With the Bulldog, I can see that the ball is clamped and the collar is locked at a glance. Anything to make us feel more comfortable, right?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Have been searching this subject and it looks like the coupler on my 21 is an Atwood AT80072.

This one: Atwood AT80072 at eTrailer?

If it is that Atwood, then as the •Installation •Operation •Maintenance manual says...

Note: These are non-locking couplers

There's nowhere to put a pin which would prevent the latch from flipping up. The tabs on the latch only stay in the slots on the housing because if something pulls the yoke up it drives the tabs into the slots, rather than popping them out. There are other brands of a similar yoke-style design which do have a locking pin provision for the latch.

If something does flip the latch (something bouncing around catches on it? someone flips it up manually?) it removes one stage of retention for the yoke, which will probably still stay in place.

The Atwood 80072 is essentially the same design as on my 37-year-old Boler, but a different model (mine doesn't have a model number on it). Mine also has no provision for a locking pin, but stays latched reliably without it.

Was the latch flipped up (tabs out of the slots), but the yoke still down?

Originally Posted by Rossue

What got me wondering was your comment about the Andersen putting pressure on the back of the yoke.

The chains of the Andersen No-Sway should be pulling the back of the coupler hard against the ball, but at the same time the weight of the tongue is pushing the coupler down against the ball. If the result has the sliding jaw pushed against the ball, the jaw will pull back on the yoke. Because the front of the coupler housing curves back a bit under the ball (the reason why people note that the trailer doesn't want to come straight up off the ball) and the yoke is pivoted just under the centre of the ball, the yoke should tend to pull down rather than popping up - it should stay in place even without the latch engaged. My Atwood was rusty and sticky when I got the trailer so the latch didn't engage easily, but the yoke stayed firmly engaged anyway.

Originally Posted by Rossue

The rim going around the front of the coupler is slightly curled upward and I did show that to Reace who didn't think it was an issue.

By rim, do you mean the flange the runs around the opening as reinforcement? I think this might be bent up a bit when they are made, but even if not it only takes being bumped into the top of a ball a few times to push it that way.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by tidewater

With the Bulldog, I can see that the ball is clamped and the collar is locked at a glance.

Definitely a good feature. It is visually clear that the clamp is in place with the yoke design, too, but the collar action of the Bulldog Collar-Lok is particularly clear.

[tractors1]

I use the electric jack to pick up the rear end of the tow vehicle after hitching up. If not latched & locked it will pop the ball out. Simple!

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

This one: Atwood AT80072 at eTrailer?

If it is that Atwood, then as the •Installation •Operation •Maintenance manual says...

There's nowhere to put a pin which would prevent the latch from flipping up. The tabs on the latch only stay in the slots on the housing because if something pulls the yoke up it drives the tabs into the slots, rather than popping them out. There are other brands of a similar yoke-style design which do have a locking pin provision for the latch.

If something does flip the latch (something bouncing around catches on it? someone flips it up manually?) it removes one stage of retention for the yoke, which will probably still stay in place.

The Atwood 80072 is essentially the same design as on my 37-year-old Boler, but a different model (mine doesn't have a model number on it). Mine also has no provision for a locking pin, but stays latched reliably without it.


By rim, do you mean the flange the runs around the opening as reinforcement? I think this might be bent up a bit when they are made, but even if not it only takes being bumped into the top of a ball a few times to push it that way.

Brian, I looked again at etrailer from your link and they state that you can put a locking pin into the coupler.

I don't think the outside rim is an issue, however looking closely at the tongue and moving it around am at once both skeptical that it could move upward after inserting the pin then wondering if it could actually pivot up while attached through the ringhole.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Brian, I looked again at etrailer from your link and they state that you can put a locking pin into the coupler.

Sure enough - although they attach the same Atwood document saying it is not lockable, the photo and drawing both show a hole which is presumably for the pin or lock. I suppose Atwood just didn't update the description when they changed the design.

[Rossue]

Just had my coupler replaced under warranty but it required some persistence and patience.

When I first called Atwood(now owned by Dometic) about the problem they didn't want to talk with me- just their "dealer"(Dexter just the opposite). So I got the RV shop on a conference call and explained that the coupler latch opened 3 times after towing in the last 6 weeks; twice with the Andersen and once with the new Pro Series WDH and new 2" ball. That was enough for Atwood(hello-liability) and they agreed to send out a latch kit. The latch kit was horrible; the bolt wasn't long enough and the pin wouldn't align with the outside holes and the inside ring on top of the coupler. It also fit so tight that the mechanic said it would start wearing out the coupler inside as the ball was way harder. Trouble was they had to grind off the staked end of the pin to remove the original latch and trying to put that back together wasn't an option.

Spoke with a technical support rep at Atwood who said he saw the kit order the week before and didn't like sending out the kit. His opinion was just do the whole coupler. Being that they didn't have one in a warehouse he told me to order one third-party which I did. Maybe that's why he didn't send the coupler? Anyway, Amazon Prime had it with free two-day shipping fortunately.

The part arrived and was installed, which requires grinding off the old and welding on the new part. New one works great; so far so good. The shop had to submit two separate Warranty Service Reports- one for the kit and another for the coupler. Being that I bought the part I have to send it back to get paid; they are going to send a UPS label though. Oh, well at least I am not wondering about the coupler opening on its own now. Although Atwood/Dometic is a huge company I did find working with them to be Ok once I had contact info rather than just an 800#. That happened by accident when I sent an inquiry on their website asking for a tracking number for the latch kit they sent.

To answer a question Brian posed earlier- each time the coupler opened the fins were still in the slots. and the tab was down. Am thinking there was just a lot of slop in there created over the last 25K or so miles towing. Did learn a lot about couplers though with this and the one thing I will always do now before a trip is to R & R the grease in the coupler. Am thinking the original Andersen instructions of not using any grease is questionable in the use of a coupler as they need lubrication ...the ball is a harder metal and is likely to cause wear inside the coupler housing without any.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Just had my coupler replaced under warranty but it required some persistence and patience.

When I first called Atwood(now owned by Dometic) about the problem they didn't want to talk with me- just their "dealer"(Dexter just the opposite). So I got the RV shop on a conference call and explained that the coupler opened 3 times after towing in the last 6 weeks; twice with the Andersen and once with the new Pro Series WDH and new 2" ball. That was enough for Atwood(hello-liability) and they agreed to send out a latch kit. The latch kit was horrible; the bolt wasn't long enough and the pin wouldn't align with the outside holes and the inside ring on top of the coupler. It also fit so tight that the mechanic said it would start wearing out the coupler inside as the ball was way harder. Trouble was they had to grind off the staked end of the pin to remove the original latch and trying to put that back together wasn't an option.

Spoke with a technical support rep at Atwood who said he saw the kit order the week before and didn't like sending out the kit. His opinion was just do the whole coupler. Being that they didn't have one in a warehouse he told me to order one third-party which I did. Maybe that's why he didn't send the coupler? Anyway, Amazon Prime had it with free two-day shipping fortunately.

The part arrived and was installed, which requires grinding off the old and welding on the new part. New one works great; so far so good. The shop had to submit two separate Warranty Service Reports- one for the kit and another for the coupler. Being that I bought the part I have to send it back to get paid; they are going to send a UPS label though. Oh, well at least I am not wondering about the coupler opening on its own now. Although Atwood/Dometic is a huge company I did find working with them to be Ok once I had contact info rather than just an 800#. That happened by accident when I sent an inquiry on their website asking for a tracking number for the latch kit they sent.

To answer a question Brian posed earlier- each time the coupler opened the fins were still in the slots. and the tab was down. Am thinking there was just a lot of slop in there created over the last 25K or so miles towing. Did learn a lot about couplers though with this and the one thing I will always do now before a trip is to R & R the grease in the coupler. Am thinking the original Andersen instructions of not using any grease is questionable in the use of a coupler as they need lubrication ...the ball is a harder metal and is likely to cause wear inside the coupler housing without any.

Thanks for the report . Glad you got it solved . When we picked up our trailer Dennis who hooked us up said to not put grease on ball . I started out that way but saw marking on the ball . I bought some Reese ball grease ,Also have a cover . I always have been putting new clean grease on ball . 2 metal parts rubbing together in my mind need some lubrication . Pat

[blue_bullet]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Thanks for the report . Glad you got it solved . When we picked up our trailer Dennis who hooked us up said to not put grease on ball . I started out that way but saw marking on the ball . I bought some Reese ball grease ,Also have a cover . I always have been putting new clean grease on ball . 2 metal parts rubbing together in my mind need some lubrication . Pat

What's the answer? Grease the ball or not. In the past I greased all mine but haven't for years. I may start again. On our pickup trip friends went with us. After Suma, WA we traveled to Anacortes to camp a few nights there. Our friends were pulling a cargo trailer with an ungreased ball. The nut on the shank slipped, and the ball was loose and could not be loosened or tightened. We searched all over Anacortes and found an old time welder who fixed it permanently. He also admonished us for not using grease and referred to the "honing" effect where a softer metal can wear into a harder metal. He said a bit of grease is helpful in reducing that effect.

What is the downside of greasing the ball other than a slight mess?

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by blue_bullet

What's the answer? Grease the ball or not. In the past I greased all mine but haven't for years. I may start again. On our pickup trip friends went with us. After Suma, WA we traveled to Anacortes to camp a few nights there. Our friends were pulling a cargo trailer with an ungreased ball. The nut on the shank slipped, and the ball was loose and could not be loosened or tightened. We searched all over Anacortes and found an old time welder who fixed it permanently. He also admonished us for not using grease and referred to the "honing" effect where a softer metal can wear into a harder metal. He said a bit of grease is helpful in reducing that effect.

What is the downside of greasing the ball other than a slight mess?

It is your decision but we are greasing ours with a cover when not hooked up . Dennis said dirt could get in grease and cause wear . I saw the wear without the grease . I always clean up the older grease and use fresh . Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

The latch kit was horrible; the bolt wasn't long enough and the pin wouldn't align with the outside holes and the inside ring on top of the coupler. It also fit so tight that the mechanic said it would start wearing out the coupler inside as the ball was way harder. Trouble was they had to grind off the staked end of the pin to remove the original latch and trying to put that back together wasn't an option.

That's strange - the repair kit should simply be the same parts as used in a new coupler, plus a bolt and nut. The parts should all fit fine, unless the coupler body has distorted or the design has changed.

If it were just the bolt, I would have bought the right bolt and moved on, but of course that wasn't the situation.

Originally Posted by Rossue

Being that they didn't have one in a warehouse he told me to order one third-party which I did. Maybe that's why he didn't send the coupler?

That makes sense, but it is bizarre that they didn't have this common coupler in stock. Perhaps 2-5/16" balls have become so popular that the 2" is the oddball size?

Originally Posted by Rossue

Although Atwood/Dometic is a huge company I did find working with them to be Ok once I had contact info rather than just an 800#. That happened by accident when I sent an inquiry on their website asking for a tracking number for the latch kit they sent.

When a company allows (or requires) responding staff to include direct contact information it can make the whole process of a non-standard request a lot more productive.

Originally Posted by Rossue

To answer a question Brian posed earlier- each time the coupler opened the fins were still in the slots. and the tab was down. Am thinking there was just a lot of slop in there created over the last 25K or so miles towing.

Thanks Ross - that makes more sense than the yoke flipping up.

It is, however, an astonishing amount of wear for this type of coupler.

Originally Posted by Rossue

Did learn a lot about couplers though with this and the one thing I will always do now before a trip is to R & R the grease in the coupler. Am thinking the original Andersen instructions of not using any grease is questionable in the use of a coupler as they need lubrication ...the ball is a harder metal and is likely to cause wear inside the coupler housing without any.

I would go further than that: not greasing between the Andersen No-Sway and the ball is brutal to the coupler. If the tug and trailer were only operated on a perfectly flat road, and never accelerated or braked or had any load shifted, then the coupler would not move relative the ball even around turns (since the ball rotates with the trailer); in that ideal world no lubrication is required. In the real world the coupler is rammed against the back of the ball with huge force, then pried up and down. I think that calls for lubrication.

I think Andersen has the opposite situation to Dometic: it is very small so service can be very personal, but they are also lacking in depth of resources, making some of their decisions and communications erratic and technically shaky.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by blue_bullet

What is the downside of greasing the ball other than a slight mess?

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Dennis said dirt could get in grease and cause wear . I saw the wear without the grease . I always clean up the older grease and use fresh .

I agree that holding abrasive dirt is the potential problem, and that fresh grease is the solution.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That's strange - the repair kit should simply be the same parts as used in a new coupler, plus a bolt and nut. The parts should all fit fine, unless the coupler body has distorted or the design has changed.

Thanks Russ - that makes more sense than the yoke flipping up.

I would go further than that: not greasing between the Andersen No-Sway and the ball is brutal to the coupler.... In the real world the coupler is rammed against the back of the ball with huge force, then pried up and down. I think that calls for lubrication.

The design for the kit is different; it is galvanized vs. painted and works with more than one Atwood coupler model. A longer bolt allowed for the lock nut to tighten sufficiently without impinging on the side of the yoke, but did not resolve the overall problem with poor fit.

Atwood's Maintenance advice in their Literature MPD 87984 says:

Lubricate ball socket and ball clamp with wheel bearing grease.
Clean and lubricate monthly.
2. Check towing hitch, ball and coupler for signs of wear before each
trip. Replace coupler if damaged or worn.
3. Lubricate moving or sliding parts monthly with S.A.E. 30 weight oil.
4. Should problems or questions arise, contact your dealer, the trailer
manufacturer or Atwood Service Department 574-264-2131.
5. For Warranty information contact Atwood before having any work
done 574-264-2131

[gbaglo]

When not hitched up, I can rotate the ball with my bare hands. That said, there is no way I could undo the nut that holds it on without substantial tools, so I've done nothing about it.
Not sure if it should have a couple washers added or if it's better this way.

[Loren & Cathy]

Before I saw this thread I had made up my mind that I was going to grease the ball. I notice some wear and I think grease would help a lot. And I have to thoroughly agree about cleaning out the old grease and applying new. There is a trailer and hitch store not to far from here and I think I'll ask their opinion plus see if they have a special grease. Loren

[jennykatz]

gbaglo, the ball should not move around .I would get a plumbers wrench and take it off and put a lock washer under the nut and tighten until it does not move . Maybe find out the torque setting and use it till tight Jim

[Loren & Cathy]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

gbaglo, the ball should not move around .I would get a plumbers wrench and take it off and put a lock washer under the nut and tighten until it does not move . Maybe find out the torque setting and use it till tight Jim

I have a small assortment of ball hitches of different drops and all have a lock washer and are extremely tight. Loren

[rbryan4]

I've used a dry PTFE spray with good results. The hookup and unhook goes smoother. Once the lubricant dries on the surface, it leaves a thin "teflon" coating. Dirt and dust don't stick to it, and it lasts for months. I hate the mess and dirt attraction of grease, and try to avoid it unless the application specifically requires it.