Escape new features

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Thanks, Brian, for the info. I think what this means for me is: when I bring my 17 home next summer, and I see that picky highway patrol guy around, I'll turn on the MAXXFAN full blast, leave the door shut, and the partial vacuum will pull in the trailer sides to 2031 mm.

You'll already be at 1930 mm. It's a 17.

[Donna D.]

I can't answer for any ETI build (future) owner other than 5.0TAs. Part of my build sheet, was to send ETI measurements of my truck, in the bed (and ground to bedrail).. at the axle bedrail height, so they knew how to set the springs and shackles for my particular build.

Trucks are a problem for 5th wheels because of the differences in bedrail heights.

Love how Ten Forward sits when hooked up.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Love how Ten Forward sits when hooked up.

That's because you have the right truck Donna - an F150...

[Donna D.]

Robert, I'm lovin' my truck. But I have to give credit to ETI. They're not just churning out trailers, they ask the owners questions that make ownership stellar!

Totally cool for us that don't just buy a trailer for sale on some "lot."

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Robert, I'm lovin' my truck. But I have to give credit to ETI. They're not just churning out trailers, they ask the owners questions that make ownership stellar!

Totally cool for us that don't just buy a trailer for sale on some "lot."

I always give credit to ETI. But it's also because you have the right truck...he he

(Can't tell I'm a Ford guy at all, huh?)

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

at 1930 mm. It's a 17.

25.4 mm = 1"

6'-8" = 80" = 2032 mm

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

You'll already be at 1930 mm. It's a 17.

I'm missing something: 1930 mm is 76" (or 6'4"), while the width of an Escape 17' is 6'8" (80" or 2032 mm... but it's not really that precise).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I can't answer for any ETI build (future) owner other than 5.0TAs. Part of my build sheet, was to send ETI measurements of my truck, in the bed (and ground to bedrail).. at the axle bedrail height, so they knew how to set the springs and shackles for my particular build.

Did they say they were doing something with shackles? With tandem leaf-spring axles using an "equalizer" rocker changing height with shackles would mean tilted springs or a different centre mount (which would be a different welded-on part, which seems very unlikely).

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I'm missing something: 1930 mm is 76" (or 6'4"), while the width of an Escape 17' is 6'8" (80" or 2032 mm... but it's not really that precise).

Yeah, my mistake. Was basing it on 76".

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Did they say they were doing something with shackles? With tandem leaf-spring axles using an "equalizer" rocker changing height with shackles would mean tilted springs or a different centre mount (which would be a different welded-on part, which seems very unlikely).

Don't know Brian. All I know is I need to send the measurements, which I did. Shackles are adjustable. Maybe the 2" - 6" during the build? One hole, three hole? With springs, it's not HIGH lift it's about the shackles and where the axle needs to be placed.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Floating Cloud

Since high lift is an option only for the 15' and 17', I take it that all 19's and 21's are being made higher than a 15' or 17'. I am not sure that was always the case with the 19' however.

Could be, but I think it's more likely that the larger trailers have always been taller (longer trailers are generally taller for bumper clearance), so they are tall enough for SUVs and pickup trucks and have significant clearance; the shorter trailers, in contrast, are lower so a lifted option is available to suit taller tugs or rougher road conditions.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

All I know is I need to send the measurements, which I did. Shackles are adjustable. Maybe the 2" - 6" during the build? One hole, three hole?

Donna, perhaps you're thinking of your classic car background, rather than trailers. If you put longer shackles on the back end of the leaf springs on a car's rear axle (in the traditional configuration), it handles lousy (because the desired slope of the spring is changed) but sits higher (traditionally to clear big tires). Modern pickups actually hang the truck from the back of the springs (bracket below spring ends), so extended shackles lower the truck, and the spring slope change is (in moderation) okay for stability - these seem to be used for a couple inches of height change.

If you try substantially different shackle length on the tandem axles of your 5.0TA, the trailing axle springs and leading axle springs will tilt in opposite directions, the two axles will steer different directions when the trailer leans, and it will generally be bad. The very short springs used on a trailer (compared to those on a car or pickup truck) make this even worse... so trailers are not raised by extending the shackles. For example, eTrailer shows a range of shackle links, but they're all about the same length. Also, the normal configuration has the shackles in tension to the equalizer/rocker (like the rear of those pickup trucks) to they would need to be shortened to raise, and they have no extra length. It could be reconfigured for more height with the shackles at the other ends of the springs, but even that (which would be questionable for control) would only add a couple of inches.

As long as the ETI people didn't talk about changing shackles, then it seems safe to assume they are doing something normal such as spring-under/spring-over conversion or perhaps spacer blocks.

[cpaharley2008]

So what happens if one gets a new tow vehicle, will the trailer have to be taken back to ETI for a face lift or lowering? What happens if you tow vehicle needs to be towed for repairs, can the 5.0 be hoisted onto a flat bed tow truck and secured for towing? Just wondering about the "what if" scenarios.

[Donna D.]

Guess I need to get under Ten Forward and look. I'll take a picture or two too.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Guess I need to get under Ten Forward and look. I'll take a picture or two too.

Excellent!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

So what happens if one gets a new tow vehicle, will the trailer have to be taken back to ETI for a ... lift or lowering?

That is one reason for my interest in the actual method of adjusting height. It is a "new feature" only in that the whole 5.0TA model is new, and is the first use in an Escape of a leaf-spring suspension.

Reace suggested that the height of a 5.0TA would be readily changed, which I agree is important, and that's why I am guessing that a corresponding height change method is used which would not require welding or the replacement of any significant parts. I would not expect to need to go back to ETI to have it changed to the other height choice (whether that is up or down)... but when we get details we'll see.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

So what happens if one gets a new tow vehicle, will the trailer have to be taken back to ETI for a face lift or lowering? What happens if you tow vehicle needs to be towed for repairs, can the 5.0 be hoisted onto a flat bed tow truck and secured for towing?

This one isn't really about "new features", but it is a common and understandable concern with fifth-wheels.

In addition to the option of simply using another tow vehicle with a fifth-wheel of compatible height, many tow trucks have a fifth-wheel hitch that mounts on the wheel-lift "stinger"; this allows them to tow fifth-wheel trailers of much greater weight than the Escape, with as low a pin height as desired and more than high enough for an Escape.
Medium-duty trucks set up specifically for fifth-wheel towing usually don't have box sides and do have sloped rear decks for clearance- despite the size mismatch, a 5.0TA might work acceptably on one of these even if the truck's pin height is greater than desired for the Escape.
A 5.0TA is pretty tall to put on a flatdeck, and putting it on without specifically suited equipment would be challenging, but it could be done. I don't see any issue with securing it, sitting as low as practical on the landing gear.

[float5]

I found an old post by someone that the 19' had the high lift option but he decided not to get it. That is what I thought. I was wondering when the option went out and it was apparently made standard. I doubt Escape keeps dates on these things. I once asked about our jacks and they told me we have scissor. We do not!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Floating Cloud

I doubt Escape keeps dates on these things. I once asked about our jacks and they told me we have scissor.

I think the usual approach for a product of this type would be to track changes by production date or serial number... I would go with serial number. While I suspect that ETI does track significant changes, it would certainly be easy to lose track of temporary changes and things that could easily be changed later anyway, such as using a batch of a different type of stabilizer jack.

In motor vehicles this is usually a matter of model year, but it is common to have mid-year changes, and those always seem to be described by serial number.

[padlin]

These for an F150 4x4, supposedly the mid height of the 3 available, at least that's my understanding.

The frame runs from the front to the back wheel where an extension is scabbed on above it going back to the bumper. In the 3rd image you can see the end of the forward frame between the bracket and the rear frame member. Might be able to see it better if someone did not get the spray foam.

Front, Mid, Rear.

[Brian B-P]

Thanks Bob!

So that's a normal equalized tandem leaf setup, with shackles in tension at the rocker, on what looks like 5" tall hangers (about as tall as is routinely available), with straight (not dropped) axle beams. The rocker is Dexter's rubber-cushioned E-Z Flex; that doesn't change the height or geometry.

Since the hangers have only one hole each (no changing height by moving everything up or down in the hangers), the only obvious ways to change height are those which are hidden by the wheels - moving the spring between the top and bottom of the axle beams, and using spacers between the springs and beams.

In this case, the springs appear to be under the beams, producing the lower of the two spring-over/spring-under options. If there are three heights, one higher (by about 4 inches) position could be arranged by running the springs over the beams; it looks like the tall hangers provide enough space that one position a couple inches lower could be arranged by adding blocks between the springs and beams (with longer U-bolts). These changes are bolt-on work, easily done by any mechanic and familiar to trailer building and repair shops.