My 2017 build sheet

[pstyer]

We rented a Winnebago in Alaska, GAH, last summer and the person doing the orientation told us to be careful with the foot flush toilet. It's easy to let your foot off the pedal to quickly, the pedal snaps back and breaks the mechanism inside the toilet. It's an expensive repair.

[Rossue]

Bought the alloy wheels but wouldn't do so again. For the money I think there are better ones out there. Why Eacape's vendor pre-mounts the tires with weights on the front of an alloy wheel is beyond me- do you ever see that on your car's alloy wheels? Unfortunately when you need re-balancing the removed weights leave a permanent mar on the face of the wheel.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Why Eacape's vendor pre-mounts the tires with weights on the front of an alloy wheel is beyond me- do you ever see that on your car's alloy wheels?

Not normally (although I have had clipped-on weights on the outer lip of certain alloy wheels on cars), but cars typically have substantial hub face offset now (e.g. 50 mm), and most styles place the spoke out nearly to the outer rim. That makes it possible to place the outer weights inside the spokes and still have them effective. With the zero to 6 mm offset typical of trailer wheels, and deep-dish styles, it seems likely to be difficult to hide the outer weights.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Bought the alloy wheels but wouldn't do so again. For the money I think there are better ones out there.

I suppose one could ask if it would be possible to supply the wheels (and presumably tires) to the factory ready-to-install for a credit in place of the stock tires and steel wheels. That could even allow the use of a different brand, size, and type of tire... although I assume that Reace would require pre-approval since the manufacturer is responsible for the roadworthiness of the trailer as it is delivered.

Without customer-supplied wheels, the only other way to get alloys - besides ordering them as a factory option - would be to replace the steel wheels... and perhaps sell them for a few bucks each on Craigslist.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Not normally (although I have had clipped-on weights on the outer lip of certain alloy wheels on cars), but cars typically have substantial hub face offset now (e.g. 50 mm), and most styles place the spoke out nearly to the outer rim. That makes it possible to place the outer weights inside the spokes and still have them effective. With the zero to 6 mm offset typical of trailer wheels, and deep-dish styles, it seems likely to be difficult to hide the outer weights.

Not sure what you're saying there; I do know when we bought new tires recently I was asked if I wanted the weights on the back(inside)of the wheel and that's where they went with no problems.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Not sure what you're saying there; I do know when we bought new tires recently I was asked if I wanted the weights on the back of the wheel and that's where they went with no problems.

That's because trailer wheels are typically zero offset and your tug wheels are positive (or maybe negative) offset and that allows the weights to be on the back of the wheel.


It's also the reason you can't just use any ole 15" wheel with a bolt pattern 5x4.5 and use it on a trailer.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Not sure what you're saying there; I do know when we bought new tires recently I was asked if I wanted the weights on the back of the wheel and that's where they went with no problems.

The "back" of your car or pickup wheels can still be pretty close to the front, because of that offset.

To balance a wheel and tire assembly you need to place weights in suitable places in two dimensions. The obvious one is to be at the right point around the rim, opposite the heaviest point around the circumference of the wheel&tire. If you just do that, you can get the wheel and tire in static balance: if you place it face-up on a pivot point in the centre, it stays level instead of tipping to the heavy side. Decades ago, that's all that was done, using a bubble level (and that's all some people do now - avoid them!).

The other dimension is along the rotating axis. A weight on the outer lip and another one on the opposite side of the wheel on the inner lip will compensate for a similar but opposite uneven distribution of mass in the wheel and tire. You only know you have this right when you spin the wheel, which is why it is called dynamic balance. All cars should have their wheels dynamically balanced, on machines that work by spinning the wheel & tire and measuring the shaking forces.

To be effective for dynamic balance, the weights need to be at different positions along the rotating axis, so some are more inboard and some are more outboard (and the weight has to be chosen to go with those positions). The old method (still used with steel wheels) was to clip them on the inner and outer lips, but with alloys now commonly not having a lip shape that works for that - and people not wanting clips on their alloys - the normal approach is to glue them to the wheel; the outer weights are often far into the wheel, but the outer weights must still be well outboard of the inner weights. It could take a lot of metal to dynamically balance a wheel and tire if all the weights are on the back of a trailer wheel.

The Wikipedia page on tire balance isn't bad, but eventually gets into math and 3D dynamics.

[Rossue]

Brian, what you say may be empirically correct, however there are methods being employed to use a single weight on the inside of the of the wheel.
SmartWeight(R) Balancing Technology

The problem with the weights being stuck on the outside then being removed is it breaks the clear coat and starts the corrosion process.

I haven't seen a spin balance machine used in over 40 years in California where I've bought tires anyway. I bought the Maxxis from Discount Tire(called America's Tire here) where they set their balancing machines to achieve different types of balances, including inside the wheel only.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

I haven't seen a spin balance machine used in over 40 years in California where I've bought tires anyway.

Ross, I assume that you mean that you haven't seen a bubble balancing machine (which only does a static balance) in that time; spin balancers are used to do a dynamic balance. That time period makes sense - some people still just bubble balance for trailers (Harbor Freight will still sell you a Pittsburgh Portable Wheel Balancer for $80), but most small trailer technology (suspension, bearings, brakes, tires) is four decades behind the times so it fits.

Originally Posted by Rossue

I bought the Maxxis from Discount Tire(called America's Tire here) where they set their balancing machines to achieve different types of balances, including inside the wheel only.

I think that's typical now. What can be done is limited by the wheel shape, which is one reason that the machines have choices.

Originally Posted by Rossue

... there are methods being employed to use a single weight on the inside of the of the wheel.
SmartWeight(R) Balancing Technology

Yes, if you're clever or flexible enough sometimes you can get close enough with only one weight; that manufacturer (Hunter, which I think is big in the business) claims that it can be done with one 53% of the time. You can't arbitrarily decide that it will be on the inside; if it works out that way... great. The screen shots on the their website indicate that the single weight is achieved by tolerating more residual imbalance.

Labor time was also reduced when 53% of the wheels were dynamically balanced with only one weight required.

Their emphasis on labour time tells me why this is important to them, and it's not effectiveness, accuracy, or even appearance.

If you are only static balancing, you can of course put the one weight on the inside rim... that will make the dynamic imbalance worse, but if we're bubble balancing we're not too concerned about doing a good job.

The point was just that to me, weights on the outside of a trailer wheel don't necessarily indicate an inferior balancing job.

[Rossue]

Spin? Arrgghh, I did mean bubble Anyway, I totally agree it is not inferior to put the weights on the outside- it just causes potential problems and if not necessary I would prefer not to have them.

I thought the Hunter machine stresses savings in the lead weights themselves. If you read the testimonials from their customers (tire shop & automotive dealers) that, along with fewer customer complaints & redos were the main points being made.

Edit: will check tomorrow to verify dynamic balancing was done.

[Jimrules]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: jennykatz... #6... Go for the "King Jack" antenna. Satellite TV Antennas | KING You won't regret it. At Salt Springs CG. Ocala Nat. Forest. we got at least 30 OTA channels. 6 PBS so were sure of one with Downton Abbey on Sun. eve. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Is this the jack antenna that ETI sells/installs or a different brand? If it's a different brand is it something you added later?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Jimrules

Is this the jack antenna that ETI sells/installs or a different brand? If it's a different brand is it something you added later?

No, that is not the one. The link appears to point to the satellite antennas that King sells.

This is the one installed by Escape, for OTA signals (no satellite):

http://kingconnect.com/product/king-jack-antenna/

[jennykatz]

Where does one find the Formica number 58" that ETI talks about ??
Flooring might go with standard ?
Do not like the standard upholstery we want a solid color .We have Sunbrella fabric in our boat seems to work well?
Any thoughts on build
1-A/C
2-extra insulation and thermal windows
3-larger batteries 2 sixes or one 29
4-cubby next to bathroom is this an extra for 2017? also is there a medicine cabinet for 2017?
5-solar
6-supply ETI with Solid color upholstery
7-Buy my own Inverter and install one plug for it ?
8-mag wheels?? Do we really need them ?
9-Tv ready with King Jack antenna
10-Storage box in front or buy one or have one made up and install later (metal)
11-what Decal colors that stay vibrant in summer sun?
12-Extra 12 volt cooling fan for Fridge
13-microwave
14-tv wall mount Do I have to reinforce that wall ?
15-counter extension
16-back up camera wireless I would rather have wired how do we get this done?
17-stereo?

Any thoughts Did we get the most important ones?

[rbryan4]

My responses inline:

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Where does one find the Formica number 58" that ETI talks about ??

Number 58 means matte finish, not the color. There's an upcharge for other finishes. It's all on the Formica website.

Flooring might go with standard ?

Sure.

Do not like the standard upholstery we want a solid color .We have Sunbrella fabric in our boat seems to work well?

Order solid and send it to ETI. They'll tell you how much is needed.

1-A/C Debatable. Does affect resale. If you intend to camp where it's above the 80's in the daytime, I'd say go for it, but the whole topic invites controversy and adamant opinions for some reason.
2-extra insulation and thermal windows Definitely. Cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, and reduces noise as well. Worth it.
3-larger batteries 2 sixes or one 29 Depends. Are you going to boondock alot? Might want to consider solar, and dual 6V batteries will give you more amp hours.
4-cubby next to bathroom is this an extra for 2017? also is there a medicine cabinet for 2017? Yes, there's a medicine cabinet. Can't speak on the cubby.
5-solar Again, if you intend to boondock, it's quite nice to have. Allows for longer camping periods without shore power.
6-supply ETI with Solid color upholstery As mentioned above. Sailrite is a good company for that.
7-Buy my own Inverter and install one plug for it ? I find it easier to have ETI do wiring. Just me.
8-mag wheels?? Do we really need them ? Mags? Are we talking stock or after market? We got the aluminum wheels and we like them.
9-Tv ready with King Jack antenna If you want to watch OTA TV, and you don't want to fool with wiring. It works well.
10-Storage box in front or buy one or have one made up and install later (metal) Again, a topic that you'll find a hundred opinions on. Our opinion? The best option we got on the trailer.
11-what Decal colors that stay vibrant in summer sun? The graphics supplier used by ETI sells externally suitable "lightfast" or UV resistant graphics - pretty much every color is UV protected. Having said that, keep the trailer waxed and if you have a very clean and vibrant color on the graphics, something like 303 Protectant does well to preserve the color over time.
12-Extra 12 volt cooling fan for Fridge Yes. Anything to cool the back of the fridge area should help the fridge perform better.

Any thoughts Did we get the most important ones?
I'd look at possibly some additional outlets, depending on how you intend to use the trailer. Think about where you'll use them and locate them there. A two-way water heater is handy as well. We like the Captains lights over the bed for reading or just general illumination. When it comes to "additional options", at the end of the day, only you can tell if they are worth it. It's your trailer, nobody else's. Get what's important to you.

[jennykatz]

Yes I forgot the duel water heater .Where is the additional Access hatch ? Would I need one if batteries and wiring is in there ?
I forgot the outside shower option and is the wireless camera worth the $450 ? Maybe have ETI put in cable or wires that are needed for a wired back up camera?

[float5]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Yes I forgot the duel water heater .Where is the additional Access hatch ? Would I need one if batteries and wiring is in there ?
I forgot the outside shower option and is the wireless camera worth the $450 ? Maybe have ETI put in cable or wires that are needed for a wired back up camera?

Second hatch is at back driver's side. Gives access to the bench.
We have the U dinette and batteries are at the back passenger side.

Outside shower can be used for sand or filling buckets or many other uses.

[rbryan4]

My responses inline:

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Yes I forgot the duel water heater .Where is the additional Access hatch ? Would I need one if batteries and wiring is in there ? It's toward the rear on the driver's side, under the dinette bench. It's not for accessing any wiring, but for externally accessing the storage under the bench.
I forgot the outside shower option and is the wireless camera worth the $450 ? I don't have either option, so I can't speak with any authority on whether they are worth it or not. I do see many uses for the outside shower. Maybe have ETI put in cable or wires that are needed for a wired back up camera?Pre-wiring for anything you 'probably' will get later is often a good idea. Makes the install much easier.

[cpaharley2008]

1-A/C- definitely for travel and in Florida
2-extra insulation and thermal windows - yes
3-larger batteries 2 sixes or one 29- 2x6 era is better
4-cubby next to bathroom is this an extra for 2017? also is there a medicine cabinet for 2017?-cubbies- yes
5-solar-yes
6-supply ETI with Solid color upholstery
7-Buy my own Inverter and install one plug for it ?-have factory do one
8-mag wheels?? Do we really need them ?-cosmetic but do not rust like the white do
9-Tv ready with King Jack antenna-I dropped antenna, most cg have cable-just did cable ready option
10-Storage box in front or buy one or have one made up and install later (metal) -definite yes
11-what Decal colors that stay vibrant in summer sun?-why not delete, no worry then
12-Extra 12 volt cooling fan for Fridge-yes
13-microwave-person choice, I like the pantry where it goes
14-tv wall mount Do I have to reinforce that wall ? not if you mount on a corner
15-counter extension - I had 3 in BlackJack with the "U" dinette
16-back up camera wireless I would rather have wired how do we get this done?-if you don't use one now,no
17-stereo?-we listen to the nature channel- it's free

Are you getting the awning windows and any extra- I got one in bath and would get the one over the nightstand, the more light and air, the better

[John David]

We have a 19 so some of the layout related items I cannot comment on.

1-A/C --The trailer should come "AC ready". This will allow you to try without and easily add later if need be. This is a personal choice as it depends on your camping style. Sometimes in dry camping the nearest current bush is pretty far away.
2-extra insulation and thermal windows Well worth it!
3-larger batteries 2 sixes or one 29 Again depends on camping style. If dry camping you want to increase your reserve of essential resources to extend your staying time or reduce your usage of those resources. IE water, power, holding tank, propane. Extra amp hrs are really only good if you can replenish hem so if you go with 2 x 6v batts at 232 AHr I would definately add solar.
4-cubby next to bathroom is this an extra for 2017? also is there a medicine cabinet for 2017? No comment
5-solar See comment on item3. We have two x 160 fixed solar panels and 2 x 6V at 232 amps so power during dry camping is not limiting.
6-supply ETI with Solid color upholstery No Comment
7-Buy my own Inverter and install one plug for it ? For light loads we use a separately purchased 300 w inverter.
8-mag wheels?? Do we really need them ? You don't "need" mags. Its a look factor
9-Tv ready with King Jack antenna No comment as its a camping style issue.
10-Storage box in front or buy one or have one made up and install later (metal) A front storage box is a really great option. how you get one is up to you. For us, it was easier to have ETI put it on during the build.
11-what Decal colors that stay vibrant in summer sun? no comment
12-Extra 12 volt cooling fan for Fridge do not know if this helps or not. Many say it could help.

Any thoughts Did we get the most important ones?
-Additional outlets
-screen room for the awning
-power hitch jack
-sand pads on the stabilizer feet
-Move the outside porch light to waist or chest level. It shines in your eyes at night when you are going in the traiker.
-get a separate switch for one interior light right beside the porch light switch on the doorframe
-two way water heater and see if ETI will relocate the switch to the interior
-exterior light over front box

A lot of the above is pretty personal but some we didn't get and would if we were buying again. Take a look at the modification threads on this forum.

[Bobbito]

Microwave: If you don't need it, the cabinet makes a great pantry.

Aluminum wheels: I spent a ton of time on our stick trailer's painted wheels over the years battling the ugly rust, made worse because we drive a lot of gravel roads when fishing.

Cubbies: Love them, and their proximity to the bathroom makes them indispensable (no medicine cabinet in our 2015 Escape 21

Storage box: Our favorite option

Double pane windows & insulation: The windows really help keep the outside sounds out when closed.

Spray foam insulation: We love it because the floor is so much warmer than in our previous trailer when camping in the cold. It does reduce your clearance a couple of inches, though, which is why we had the high-lift axle kit installed a couple of months ago. (Because we go on rough roads at times)

Sand pads for stabilizers: Yes

Bob K


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