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Old 01-21-2009, 08:54 PM   #1
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New issue with thermal windows

Well...learn something new everyday. Unfortunately....its not what I wanted to learn!

If you noticed on the Escape website, the rockshield we were using is no longer available. The new system is a rockshieild/window all in one. Works and looks great...but it is only available as a solid window. No problem, we change the front side windows to opening...alls well. Nope...rockshield window is not available in thermal.

I have received a sample of this unit and it does seal quite nicely when closed so.....is it reasonable to assume that in the cold, close the rockshield in the evening to maintain some heat?

Your thoughts....especially those that have ordered thermal windows.

Reace
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:37 PM   #2
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

Hi Reace

Can,t see this being a large problem, I for one like the idea of the front window being well sealed
(not openning) and having a good tight fitting cover.
I also prefer the 2 side windows opening, as for the front not being available if the form
of a double glazed (thermal) window, this can be easily over come by the addition of an inside storm
(we do this at work for different RV dealerships). This consists of a piece of plexiglass, some
single side adhesive closed cell foam tape and some turn tabs.

Just my thoughts.... as one who has ordered thermal windows.

ps:- Reace any chance of a fridge with a seperate freeze door?
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:20 PM   #3
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

I am no expert, but I am a science teacher (true). My understanding is that for thermal windows to work well, the glass panes have to be close together. Otherwise there is room for convective currents (like the current that makes your egg roll while you are boiling it). Once you have convection, you don't have insulation. So, closing the rock shield will have only minimal benefit.

Perhaps the owner could sandwich a piece of fitted closed-cell foam into the gap between the shield and the window? A pain, because where are you going to store it when you aren't using it?

Ron
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:52 PM   #4
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

Personally, I'm just going to go with warm thoughts.

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Old 01-22-2009, 12:15 AM   #5
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

Just for clarification the R value of a standard sealed unit (2 pieces of glass sealed together and containing desiccant)
is only 3 to this add a low E coating to one of the inside panes and fill with argon gas the R value goes up to 4.
So trapping any air between the glass and cover will some what help, the fact of the matter is glass is a terrible
insulator if your worried about staying warm the best option would be to not have the window.

But unlike Glenn, I will just turn up the thermostat.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:42 AM   #6
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

My preference would be to have the front window non-operating, but still dual glazed. And having the side windows operating would be the best choice either way for me.

My biggest reason for wanting dual glazed is to reduce condensation on the windows, heat loss being secondary.

To add to what Doug wrote, single glazing is R 0.91, and dual glazing R value increases slightly the further the panes are apart up to about 3/4". Beyond that there is little gain. Here are some R values for glass.


Single Glass 0.91
w/storm 2.00 (varies)
Double insulating glass
(3/16" air space) 1.61
(1/4" air space) 1.69
(1/2" air space) 2.04
(3/4" air space) 2.38
(1/2" w/ Low-E) 3.13

Closing the Rock Shield, as long as it has a good seal would definitely help, but during the day would cut out a lot of light. Maybe the idea that Doug threw about about the storm windows they do would be a good alternative.

Just some thoughts, just like the awing thing, which I believe is better than before albeit more expensive, I am sure something can be worked out here.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:56 PM   #7
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

How much space is there between the rock shield and the new front window when it's closed? If there's 3/8" or more, would it work to glue a piece of ensolite to the inner surface of the rock shield as insulation?

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Old 01-25-2009, 11:07 AM   #8
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

Thanks for bringing this up Reace.

We've ordered thermal windows and although at night closing the outside cover may help, we'd like to also have better insulation during the day if there is any way to do it (the storm window idea). It would be nice for the dinette not to be the coldest spot in the trailer when you're sitting there in cold weather. And in hot weather we'd probably have the cover open for light during the day, but the added insulation is valuable when we're running the A/C. But if it's not possible/practical, we can live with that of course.

Thanks,
--mark
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:15 PM   #9
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Re: New issue with thermal windows

Hi folks:

I think Paddy and I have the first Escape with thermal windows. We are towing the #1 Escape 5.0 and in December, Reace installed thermal windows as an upgrade. We headed down the Oregon coast on Jan. 2 and ran into storm #1 with heavy rain, cold wind and high humidity. The condensation on the glass was minimal in the dining area and much reduced in the bed area. We did have a problem with condensation on the aluminum trim. The problem was solved by sticking black foam weatherstripping over the aluminum. I know the foam is there but it is virtually invisible to the casual observer. If you have a 5.0 the warm moist air rises to the bed area so only those windows need the foam.

As a contrast, while staying at Cape Kiwanda we walked by a Scamp trailer and the windows were dripping moisture, so the thermal windows, when "tweaked" a bit with foam weatherstripping are well worth the extra cost. We also passed a late model motor home with serious condensation on the windows.

Thermal windows or not, use your hood fan when cooking and keep a vent open when sleeping. You cannot avoid the condensation, only control it.

On a new topic, you just have to love the new screen door now available on the Escape rigs. It closes up to almost nothing and give you greater access to both sides of the entry way.

Stay cozy,

Ian, Paddy and Rubea II
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