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Old 01-31-2016, 02:05 PM   #101
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What are these words you're using "thawing" and "thermocube"?

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Old 01-31-2016, 02:18 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by PGDriver View Post
Those thermocubes are the sure great. Once I de-winterize in early spring I put a heater in the trailer and use the cube to keep the lines from freezing during the last of the cold snaps. Mine comes on at 35 and I believe it kicks off at 42. Works great have had this one for a long time.

What is the make of your pond heater, wattage and where did you get it, looks nicer then a stock tank heater.

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Old 01-31-2016, 02:21 PM   #103
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Why couldn't ETI establish a branch facility in the US (say in Sumas WA, to pick a place at random) to which payment would be directed from US buyers and from which payment to US suppliers could be made, thereby eliminating the adverse effects of the exchange rate in paying for US-supplied components and materials? Under NAFTA, I assume, there'd be no duties on importing the materials from US suppliers into Canada and ETI would simply tap into its funds at the US bank as needed.
I don't see how that would do any good. If they need to buy a US-made component that used to cost US$100, so it cost them C$120, and the exchange rate shifts so it now still costs US$100 but that's now C$140, it's C$140 out of the Escape bank account no matter where the cheque is written. As you say, there is no duty so the cost doesn't change by crossing the border.

Now, if the price of the trailer were expressed in US dollars, so all of Escape's models were now 30% more expensive in the US than they were a few years ago (and US customers were charged more than Canadian customers), this would work... but I don't think you want that, or that it would be a viable business plan.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:33 PM   #104
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We have some refinery capacity here in Vancouver, but our gas prices are higher than in other areas of Canada because we rely on refineries to the south. Every time there is a hiccup in the flow from the Washington refineries we see the effects at our gas pumps.
Bob K
That's not how it works in the Vancouver area at all, but it seems to be a common misconception. The Cherry Point Refinery on the US side is quite visible to many people in the Vancouver area, so they think it is their gasoline supplier... but it's not. Gas in Vancouver comes almost entirely from refineries in Edmonton (a few kilometres from my house) and one in the Vancouver area. There is little reliance on the Washington refineries, but gasoline is a commodity so there are effects in the price, and not just that locally.

This is explained on the Natural Resources Canada site that I linked, but people don't seem to want to read that (understandable, since there is a lot of material there), so here's a quote from The Surrey Leader:
Quote:
Cherry Point normally processes 225,000 barrels of crude oil per day.
It doesn't usually supply Metro Vancouver, which gets most of its gasoline from refineries in Alberta via Kinder Morgan's TransMountain pipeline and from Burnaby's Chevron refinery, which gets its feedstock via Kinder Morgan.
I'm surprised how often people - even those actually living in Vancouver - forget that they have much higher gasoline taxes than other areas in Canada (and even the rest of BC), which the primary reason for higher gasoline prices. I don't think it's just a coincidence that Escape Trailer Industries is out in Chilliwack, not in Vancouver where life is substantially more expensive.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:43 PM   #105
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Or an enterprising American could just import 5-10 trailers at a pop and sell them "used" for a profit for those that dislike the border issues?
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:48 PM   #106
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Had a guy look over the trailer today, was talking about what a good deal he would get buying from CA, exchange rate wise, at least till I mentioned the additional $4k he needs to tack on to the price he saw a week ago.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:00 PM   #107
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Price of gas in metro Vancouver includes 10 cents a litre for Translink to run bus and Skytrain system ( on top of all the other taxes ).
Drive out to Chilliwack and you don't pay that tax, but you waste gas getting there.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:23 PM   #108
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Thanks I didn't even look at that one because the title wasn't anything about exports and imports - I guessed it was about the relationship to crude cost, and this is the main point. Even that point is poorly handled, acknowledging but then ignoring all of the other factors in the cost of gasoline, and even referring to the price of the reference crude from the North Sea (yes, in Europe) rather than the reference crude produced and used in North America (West Texas Intermediate) or the crude actually produced in Canada and used by our refineries (especially in the west).

This is a BMO economist fishing for publicity, not information from anyone knowledgeable in the industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
The article quotes a BMO economist for its facts.

Quote from the article ........... "If the greenback rises, the loonie will by definition fall, which means Canadians will have to pay even more loonies to buy products like gasoline which are made out of crude oil priced in greenbacks. Add in the cost of refining, the vast majority of which is done in the U.S., and you have a recipe for more expensive gasoline once it's shipped back to Canada."
He starts with basic macroeconomics, then jumps to this ridiculous statement (which Barry bolded).

The reporter is somewhat on the ball, reporting this which is actually close to correct:
Quote:
Despite Canada having one of the world's largest reserves of crude oil in the world, much of the gasoline that Canadians put into their cars — especially in Central Canada and on the East Coast — is based on crude oil that's been imported, most likely Brent crude from Europe.
There isn't enough pipeline capacity to get enough Canadian crude from production areas in the west to all of the refineries in the east, so Canadian producers sell crude to US customers in the west and buy it from US and other suppliers in the east. This would be like people in eastern Canada buying trailers from a manufacturer in Vermont (if there were one) while Escape sells trailers to buyers in the US west, if it were too difficult to ship trailers across the continent. Notice that this says (correctly) that the gasoline is based on imported crude, and not that the gasoline is imported. This is explained in the Natural Resources Canada site, too.

Back to the claim by Reitzes (the BMO economist). Yes, most of the gasoline produced in North America is refined in the United States, because that's where it is consumed. If reporters checked facts, rather than just parroting whatever the guy wanting attention says, they would find the truth. To be fair, I couldn't quickly find a current source, but a chart with 2011 data from Statistics Canada reports Energy supply and demand, by fuel type, and shows that the vast majority of petroleum products (which is mostly gasoline and diesel) in Canada is produced (refined) here (4.4 million terajoules worth), with about 20% of that exported and an additional about 10% imported. Refineries take many years to build and even years to shut down, so the situation now is essentially the same.



All of this is complex and may be tedious to work through, but that just demonstrates that flippant remarks by "experts" in the media and conclusions drawn from them are not things to get worked up about... that just leads to worrying about fixing problems that don't even exist. Such remarks can spark discussion, which can be educational if people are willing to dig for information and work to understand it.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:25 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
That sentence, typically written to be vague can be interpreted as saying, since the US has 3-4 times the number of refineries in relation to Canada, thus the vast majority of any refining, no matter where would wane in comparison. In Economics it is called "economies of scale" meaning, as production grows cost per unit declines. So in comparison, the cost of refining done in Canada maybe be 3 times what it is in the US, thus the disparity.
Scale is very important in refining. Refineries can only work economically if they are huge, and they all are, which is why there are so few of them and a problem in one can have widespread repercussions. However, the Canadian refineries are big, too, so I don't think this is a big effect.

This is almost the complete opposite of travel trailer manufacturing, where doubling production means almost doubling space, staff, and equipment, and a relatively small manufacturer (such as Escape) can build a first-class product at a competitive price.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:36 PM   #110
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What's all this crude stuff got to do with Thermocubes?
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