Price Increase

[Ron in BC]

What are these words you're using "thawing" and "thermocube"?

Ron

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

Those thermocubes are the sure great. Once I de-winterize in early spring I put a heater in the trailer and use the cube to keep the lines from freezing during the last of the cold snaps. Mine comes on at 35 and I believe it kicks off at 42. Works great have had this one for a long time.

What is the make of your pond heater, wattage and where did you get it, looks nicer then a stock tank heater.

Cheers
Doug

here you go Robot Check

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by abby

Why couldn't ETI establish a branch facility in the US (say in Sumas WA, to pick a place at random) to which payment would be directed from US buyers and from which payment to US suppliers could be made, thereby eliminating the adverse effects of the exchange rate in paying for US-supplied components and materials? Under NAFTA, I assume, there'd be no duties on importing the materials from US suppliers into Canada and ETI would simply tap into its funds at the US bank as needed.

I don't see how that would do any good. If they need to buy a US-made component that used to cost US$100, so it cost them C$120, and the exchange rate shifts so it now still costs US$100 but that's now C$140, it's C$140 out of the Escape bank account no matter where the cheque is written. As you say, there is no duty so the cost doesn't change by crossing the border.

Now, if the price of the trailer were expressed in US dollars, so all of Escape's models were now 30% more expensive in the US than they were a few years ago (and US customers were charged more than Canadian customers), this would work... but I don't think you want that, or that it would be a viable business plan.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bobbito

We have some refinery capacity here in Vancouver, but our gas prices are higher than in other areas of Canada because we rely on refineries to the south. Every time there is a hiccup in the flow from the Washington refineries we see the effects at our gas pumps.
Bob K

That's not how it works in the Vancouver area at all, but it seems to be a common misconception. The Cherry Point Refinery on the US side is quite visible to many people in the Vancouver area, so they think it is their gasoline supplier... but it's not. Gas in Vancouver comes almost entirely from refineries in Edmonton (a few kilometres from my house) and one in the Vancouver area. There is little reliance on the Washington refineries, but gasoline is a commodity so there are effects in the price, and not just that locally.

This is explained on the Natural Resources Canada site that I linked, but people don't seem to want to read that (understandable, since there is a lot of material there), so here's a quote from The Surrey Leader:

Cherry Point normally processes 225,000 barrels of crude oil per day.
It doesn't usually supply Metro Vancouver, which gets most of its gasoline from refineries in Alberta via Kinder Morgan's TransMountain pipeline and from Burnaby's Chevron refinery, which gets its feedstock via Kinder Morgan.

I'm surprised how often people - even those actually living in Vancouver - forget that they have much higher gasoline taxes than other areas in Canada (and even the rest of BC), which the primary reason for higher gasoline prices. I don't think it's just a coincidence that Escape Trailer Industries is out in Chilliwack, not in Vancouver where life is substantially more expensive.

[BCnomad]

Or an enterprising American could just import 5-10 trailers at a pop and sell them "used" for a profit for those that dislike the border issues?

[padlin]

Had a guy look over the trailer today, was talking about what a good deal he would get buying from CA, exchange rate wise, at least till I mentioned the additional $4k he needs to tack on to the price he saw a week ago.

[gbaglo]

Price of gas in metro Vancouver includes 10 cents a litre for Translink to run bus and Skytrain system ( on top of all the other taxes ).
Drive out to Chilliwack and you don't pay that tax, but you waste gas getting there.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by barry

Here you go: Gas should be much cheaper with fall in oil prices, BMO says - Business - CBC News

Thanks I didn't even look at that one because the title wasn't anything about exports and imports - I guessed it was about the relationship to crude cost, and this is the main point. Even that point is poorly handled, acknowledging but then ignoring all of the other factors in the cost of gasoline, and even referring to the price of the reference crude from the North Sea (yes, in Europe) rather than the reference crude produced and used in North America (West Texas Intermediate) or the crude actually produced in Canada and used by our refineries (especially in the west).

This is a BMO economist fishing for publicity, not information from anyone knowledgeable in the industry.

Originally Posted by barry

The article quotes a BMO economist for its facts.

Quote from the article ........... "If the greenback rises, the loonie will by definition fall, which means Canadians will have to pay even more loonies to buy products like gasoline which are made out of crude oil priced in greenbacks. Add in the cost of refining, the vast majority of which is done in the U.S., and you have a recipe for more expensive gasoline once it's shipped back to Canada."

He starts with basic macroeconomics, then jumps to this ridiculous statement (which Barry bolded).

The reporter is somewhat on the ball, reporting this which is actually close to correct:

Despite Canada having one of the world's largest reserves of crude oil in the world, much of the gasoline that Canadians put into their cars — especially in Central Canada and on the East Coast — is based on crude oil that's been imported, most likely Brent crude from Europe.

There isn't enough pipeline capacity to get enough Canadian crude from production areas in the west to all of the refineries in the east, so Canadian producers sell crude to US customers in the west and buy it from US and other suppliers in the east. This would be like people in eastern Canada buying trailers from a manufacturer in Vermont (if there were one) while Escape sells trailers to buyers in the US west, if it were too difficult to ship trailers across the continent. Notice that this says (correctly) that the gasoline is based on imported crude, and not that the gasoline is imported. This is explained in the Natural Resources Canada site, too.

Back to the claim by Reitzes (the BMO economist). Yes, most of the gasoline produced in North America is refined in the United States, because that's where it is consumed. If reporters checked facts, rather than just parroting whatever the guy wanting attention says, they would find the truth. To be fair, I couldn't quickly find a current source, but a chart with 2011 data from Statistics Canada reports Energy supply and demand, by fuel type, and shows that the vast majority of petroleum products (which is mostly gasoline and diesel) in Canada is produced (refined) here (4.4 million terajoules worth), with about 20% of that exported and an additional about 10% imported. Refineries take many years to build and even years to shut down, so the situation now is essentially the same.



All of this is complex and may be tedious to work through, but that just demonstrates that flippant remarks by "experts" in the media and conclusions drawn from them are not things to get worked up about... that just leads to worrying about fixing problems that don't even exist. Such remarks can spark discussion, which can be educational if people are willing to dig for information and work to understand it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

That sentence, typically written to be vague can be interpreted as saying, since the US has 3-4 times the number of refineries in relation to Canada, thus the vast majority of any refining, no matter where would wane in comparison. In Economics it is called "economies of scale" meaning, as production grows cost per unit declines. So in comparison, the cost of refining done in Canada maybe be 3 times what it is in the US, thus the disparity.

Scale is very important in refining. Refineries can only work economically if they are huge, and they all are, which is why there are so few of them and a problem in one can have widespread repercussions. However, the Canadian refineries are big, too, so I don't think this is a big effect.

This is almost the complete opposite of travel trailer manufacturing, where doubling production means almost doubling space, staff, and equipment, and a relatively small manufacturer (such as Escape) can build a first-class product at a competitive price.

[gbaglo]

What's all this crude stuff got to do with Thermocubes?

[thoer]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

What's all this crude stuff got to do with Thermocubes?

Or Escape Price Increases?

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by bisonbill

(snip) The first few times I came to the Escape site I saw the prices and thought Escapes were on the expensive side versus the others. The dollar units are close enough that I wasn't making the mental connection that these prices are really a percentage lower. (5%-10% lower when we ordered, 30% lower today). The USD CDN exchange rate is not one of those things most people follow daily (except those of us on this forum). When everything else led me back to Escape, I finally did the math and realized that Escape's were a pretty good value. Its important to make the connection for the potential customer when they are looking at the page. Maybe even adding a feed to to webpage with today's exchange rate would do the trick.

Their prices are listed in Canadian dollars and it states that right after the price. CAD

[NW Cat Owner]

Well, I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what the new trailer looks like. I'm hoping the next time I'm up there I'll be able to see one freshly popped out of the mold, even if it's not the 21' style we have on order. I'll be able to get a very good idea of what it'll look like, regardless of the size I see.

Since the floor plan is the same, I don't need to worry that all the stuff I've purchased for the inside won't work (like bedding, sink, shower faucet, etc).

However, I am anxious to see if the new features are worth the extra $2800 US to switch over to the 21v2.0. I'm thinking it will be and it will also solve several "situations" that have come up with the trailers in the past. And I'm wondering if some of the options I've already ordered will be included in the new v2.0, which might bring down the total purchase price.

Maybe a/c is now standard, which means that can be removed from my build sheet, reducing the overall price. Or, let's say, thermal windows. Ooo, another price reduction. Or a foot flush toilet - whack 60 bucks off the total.

I'm just speculating on what's what, but it is something to ponder. So, it might not end up being a complete $4000 CND/$2800 US price difference.

Hopefully we'll find out earlier than the 6 weeks Reace mentioned in another post. He needs to end the speculation and the feeding frenzy that's going on.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by bisonbill

I looked up the exchange rate pretty much everyday once we ordered too. I was thinking about my experience when I was looking. I was looking online at Casita, EggCampers, Scamp, etc. Their prices are all in USD. The first few times I came to the Escape site I saw the prices and thought Escapes were on the expensive side versus the others. The dollar units are close enough that I wasn't making the mental connection that these prices are really a percentage lower. (5%-10% lower when we ordered, 30% lower today). The USD CDN exchange rate is not one of those things most people follow daily (except those of us on this forum). When everything else led me back to Escape, I finally did the math and realized that Escape's were a pretty good value. Its important to make the connection for the potential customer when they are looking at the page. Maybe even adding a feed to to webpage with today's exchange rate would do the trick.

Just like the start to this thread - ETI has a $4000 price increase. If you're in Canada, yes its $4000 (ouch), but if you're in the US, this is only a $2800 price increase. $2800 is more agreeable than $4000.

We had been looking at trailers for over 2 years . I didn't care what the price was when we saw the Escape . I thought the Canadian price was what we had to pay . After looking at all the options even Scamp , Casitas , it was a no brainier when we saw the Escape . So much more room for one but not too big . That was it . Pat

[nathanj04011]

Of course could argue feeding frenzies are good for business, aka Apple Inc.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Ruthe

The base price of the Escape 19 is still about $2000 less than what we paid in 2013.

Yes, if we bought the same trailer we picked up in August right now with the base price increase and options increases, we would still pay around $650 US less, roughly (we paid most a few months earlier). That fact is due to the huge change in the dollar in favor of Americans in the last year. Anyone saying that they cannot now afford an Escape because of the price increases has simply not looked at the numbers. It appears that you have an even better deal than last year, even with the price increases. We really had ours loaded up but I still think you can do just fine even if not ordering as much.

[steve dunham]

The exchange rate on Oct 1st ,2015 was $1 US =$1.33 CAN
The exchange rate on Jan 31st ,2016 was $1 US= $1.40 CAN
The percentage of change = approx 5% in favor of the US Dollar
The 21 ft escape went from $27,800 to $31,800 an increase of almost 15%
$27,800 CAN at the 10/1/2015 exchange rate =$20,900 US
$31,800 CAN at the 1/31/2016 exchange rate =$22,715 US
A cost difference of $1815
The increase in the exchange rate is not enough to cover the price increase.
The notion that an increase in the base price made the trailer cheaper to purchase is wishful thinking in my book.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The exchange rate on Oct 1st ,2015 was $1 US =$1.33 CAN
The exchange rate on Jan 31st ,2016 was $1 US= $1.40 CAN
The percentage of change = approx 5% in favor of the US Dollar
The 21 ft escape went from $27,800 to $31,800 an increase of almost 15%
$27,800 CAN at the 10/1/2015 exchange rate =$20,900 US
$31,800 CAN at the 1/31/2016 exchange rate =$22,715 US
A cost difference of $1815
The increase in the exchange rate is not enough to cover the price increase.
The notion that an increase in the base price made the trailer cheaper to purchase is wishful thinking in my book.

Where can you get a quality trailer like Escape even it it is 22, 715 US for a 21 ft ? In 2013 we still paid more at base for our 19 . What is the problem here ? That was 3 years ago . Pat

[Jim Bennett]

If one wants to justify not buying an Escape, they will find a way. If you step aside, there will be many ready to step up to the plate to take your place, and make a deal for one of the best values in fiberglass trailers.

I do realize the increase may be just that little bit too much to afford at the time, but that is the case with homes, automobiles, and most consumer products.

There was definitely a time in my life, not all that long ago, I could not have afforded an Escape.

[Rossue]

Bullwinkle: Humble, that's me... Mr. Modesty. When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest.