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Old 11-12-2011, 12:30 AM   #1
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Saw David's 19'

Hi, all,

We saw what I think is the latest greatest Wisconsin 19'. The weather was the pits but no matter because David has his Escape in a new barn. Not just any barn but a heated one. He has a good set-up that most of us can envy.

We didn't have to ask any questions because he launched right into a complete overview. The 19' seems to have enough of just about everything --- plenty of storage, the bigger fridge, queen bed and roomy dinette. They have the insulation package with thermal windows as well as AC, both of which we would want. David also put in book racks and towel racks, and had a light installed in the middle of the trailer.

People have complained about the front window being too high though and we thought that was also somewhat of a problem. I am a little worried about it being lower because that would mean that people can see in easier. I think someone addressed this problem by having the benches built higher. We would want that done probably. The benches are really too low for people of average height. At least that is the way it looked to us.

The other problem was the unstable table. Apparently, the front wall needs to be reinforced to be able to put a wood strip or bolts at the wall if one wants to try to make the table less wobbly. I think someone has mentioned this before. I don't know how many people are finding that the table is wobbly.

All in all, it looked very impressive. The oak is certainly beautiful and I like the vinyl ceiling material, much preferable in my book to what I have seen elsewhere. I even liked the stock sink. They have the microwave which we would get, although I am interested in using solar whenever possible. They kept the hanging closet and we would, too.

Thank you, David and Cathy! It was great to meet you and see your wonderful place and trailer. We are one big step closer.
Cathy






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Old 11-14-2011, 09:03 AM   #2
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Re: Saw David's 19'

Benches too low for people of average height? Oh my! What is the measurement?

What input can others give on this issue?

--Liz
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:08 PM   #3
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Re: Saw David's 19'

I'm 6' tall and the bench height seems fine to me in my 19, 2 years worth of trips. I don't think the front window can be installed any lower than it is; its height isn't an issue for us, either.

On a related note, our table doesn't wobble very much at all. Maybe we got lucky with the installation, but the friction between the front of the table and trailer wall keeps it from sliding, and I have the legs pressed very firmly into their mounts. Stable table. I think that if table sliding was a problem for me, I'd use a bit of foam tape to tighten the gap to eliminate sliding.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:09 PM   #4
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Re: Saw David's 19'

I am 6'0" and have no issues with the seat or window height. My wife is 5'4" and has never complained either.

Like Bruce, we have no issues with our table wobbling. I mean, maybe the wee slightest bit, but has never been any cause for concern.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:51 PM   #5
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Re: Saw David's 19'

Thanks for the feedback. With our 19 going into production any day now, we hope no major issues remain to be resolved. By the way, Rease now says the dinette tables are now being installed with a 1/4" space between the table and the vinyl wall surface. --Liz
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:09 PM   #6
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Re: Saw David's 19'

If anyone wants to do some measurements, others could use them at home and see what the bench height is in relation to the window. That would be:

1. height from the floor to the top of the benches (without the foam) (How much you depress the foam and whether you depress it right down to the bench depends on your weight so everyone would be different. You have to make a guess on how much the foam helps. That said, someone might tell us the depth of the foam just for our info and our guesses on that. Anyone can add what he thinks for the foam benefit.)

2. height from the floor to the underside of the table

3. height from the floor to the bottom of the window where the glass begins

If anyone does measurements, please specify which trailer you have.

If someone raises the benches, the problem becomes how high the table is and whether your knees and legs hit the bottom of the table. I don't know how high the normal table height is and what room there is to raise the benches, or can the table height be higher? Is it adjustable at all or is it already at its top height?

Average height for American men is 5'9 1/2" or 5'10" depending on where you look, with one source having 69.7".
Average height of American women is about 5'4 1/2".
Average height for Canadian women is 5'3".
Average height for Canadian men is 5'8 1/2".

My husband is normal height and cannot see well out of the window when sitting at the table, two of us, so that we are in about the middle of the seating area. Since I am shorter than he is, of course, I can't either, even though I am taller than the average woman.

The average Canadian women's height is 3/4 of a foot lower than 6'. (Of course, many are shorter than that but still in the normal range.) The average U.S. women's height is more than half a foot lower than 6'. That makes a huge difference when looking at bench and window heights. The building situation needs to be geared not toward the taller people who can see out just fine but toward the average heights. Men are invariably taller than women so it's the women's heights that should have more attention. Many men would be able to see out well but even my normal height husband cannot.

If we can get any measurements, we can figure this out. I know someone has raised the benches and I think she referred to herself as short when she was, in fact, in the normal range.

Of course, it depends partly on how much you want to see out of the window. Many people are very interested in having a view and this is a key point to them.

Yes, you 6 footers are downright tall to me! And I am not short.
Cathy
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:52 PM   #7
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Re: Saw David's 19'

Wow Cathy, I thought I overthought things (okay, I do). I know I had Reace rolling his eyes over a few of the things I was considering.

I really would not worry too much either way, in fact the consideration never even crossed my mind until this thread.

A few quick calculations given that we are seated at the table on average no more than 15 minutes per day, during daylight where we could see outside. This is pushing it too, as we almost exclusively eat and cook outside if we can, and many days see the dinette as nothing but a storage area. So doing the math; 15min/day ÷ 60min/hr ÷ 24hr/day = 0.0104, or barely over 1% of the time is spent with the potential to look out the window at the dinette.

For what it is worth, the standard height for a table top is 30", and for a chair is 18". If our trailer was still at home I would check the actual heights for you. Maybe I will be by my storage garage later.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:40 PM   #8
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Re: Saw David's 19'

Hi, Jim!

Do you ever hit bad weather? We hit bad weather almost every time we went out. We would be stuck in a trailer for days at a time if it's anything in the future like we have had in the past.
Of course, you have no problem if you are 6' anyway.

I can't imagine Reace rolling his eyes at this with what I have heard about his attention to everything. This is a basic feature, not an option. I have seen quite a few people on forums commenting about the lack of view for various reasons. I hardly think that Reace would be doing any eye-rolling over average heights and whether people can see out of the window since that is the majority of his customers. From what I have heard about him, he would want to make sure it is done right.

It's fine for you tall guys but I have heard that some others are very irked at not being able to see. They no doubt spend much more time in their trailers than you do. I am partly going by the complaints of others since we have not had a trailer. And I looked for myself. Everyone does not have the same idea of camping. But that's another thread!
Cathy
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:34 PM   #9
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Re: Saw David's 19'

Your last point is an excellent one. Most definitely everyone has a somewhat differing opinion of what camping in their Escape trailer is. I consider it a huge luxury in camping, still opting quite often to camp out of a canoe, backpack or a sled in winter. Others consider their trailer roughing it, not having done much for outdoor activity before. What is great is that it is a common thing that draws these two factions together. The Escape Rallies are a great example, lots of wonderful folk from various levels of camping coming together and having great fun. (I digress, back to the seat thing. )

We hit bad weather all the time. The last time out the highs were less than 10°C, and it froze good every night, but we were still out late sitting around the fire, playing our guitars (a bit of scotch and beer may have been involed). We tend to put up a tarp at the fire if raining. If really miserable and we are by ourselves, we might go inside, but this is usually evening and getting dark anyway. During the day we are most often gone from the trailer, off hiking, adventuring, shopping, sight seeing, and so on.

Reace has definitely rolled his eyes at me, I have witnessed it. Both Tammy and him are great to deal with though, always listening to ideas and incorporating them if feasible. With a couple of mine Reace explained why they weren't so feasible, and I moved on. A few you now see in every trailer.

I just mentioned your concern to my wife, Lisa. She too said that the thought that the windows were too high never entered her mind, and she is 8" shorter than me. I am curious now though, and plan to stop by the trailer to see for myself what the fuss is. I have talked with numerous owners and have not once heard anything about this until now, but I have been accused of not paying attention more than once before.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:48 PM   #10
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Re: Saw David's 19'

Jim, for sure you are in luxury now if you are used to sledding, backpacking and canoeing and staying out in the cold. Any roughing it I ever did was many years ago. The most so-called roughing it we have done recently is to be in a tent in the 30s and that's about it. I am too old to want to do that kind of stuff any more, or more exactly, I have too many injuries to be able to, after having overdone physical activity for many years.

I once saw people sitting around outside with a big TV out there! I thought that was pretty funny since my idea is to get away from the TV. I like to read at night and hope that I will not be watching TV but I am afraid that I will succumb to it.

Some of our recent campouts had everyone in their trailers and they never came out of the AC because it was about 100 degrees. Another time a bear was coming around every day. We passed on that with our tent and went to the nearby hotel. We took a chance at one place where there was a bear and instead we had storming storming storming like crazy.
It is always something new and different.

I figured that there are two kinds of campers: the ones who want to get away from home and the ones who think of it as a second home (with TV etc.) But I am sure the roughing it folks like yourself figure that a trailer at all is not camping but cheating! Well, I will be more than happy to cheat so that I can have a bathroom in the middle of the night and not worry about whether there is a mountain lion or bear outside, and have a sink to wash dishes in, and something close to real bed. Yep, a trailer, it's luxury all right. Can't wait.
Cathy

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