Solar or just the prep - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Me | General Topics > General Escape
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2019, 01:13 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
About the only time I would be charging them is when the inside of the trailer is over 32°F. Each battery has built in protection that prevents charging when too hot or cold, and shuts them down when the amp hours gets down to 10%. Battleborn suggests removing them if the expected temperature is under 4°F, which I hope to avoid for a long time!

The batteries are their GC2 sized 12v versions, which means I can put 2 of them in the Escape battery box. While only 100 amp hours each, they can be drawn down to 10% capacity, and provide 13.7V or so right to the end, giving me close to the equivalent of 4 AGM batteries, my original plan. The 4 AGM batteries would weigh 260 pounds; the 2 lithium weigh 62 pounds Since I'm close to the GVW of the trailer (I know, I need to get rid of stuff) saving 200 pounds would be helpful.

There are still a couple of gotchas - I'll need to change the converter to a 35 amp version that does lithium batteries (PD4635LIV) because the 55 amp WFCO converter will not charge the lithium batteries fully, and because I have a 700 watt propane generator that would overload using the current converter since the lithium batteries do not have an absorption stage & draw the full output of the converter until the BPS determines they are full.

I will also change out the solar controller for the same reason - the GoPower controller does not do lithium well. I'm still deciding between a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 with Bluetooth dongle or 50 amp version with built in Bluetooth. And, since I'm doing all that, I will also change the battery monitor from the Trimetric to a Victron. Anyone looking for a good deal on a slightly used battery system?

I will post photos of the process, as well as how well it all works. Even though the batteries are warranted for 10 years to be within 80% of their initial amp hours, I know I can't justify the cost; I'm mostly doing it to stop firing off the propane detector, and for fun.
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2019, 11:53 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
sclifrickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Trailer: 2010 17B “MATT”, then 2017 19 “Lilly”
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
About the only time I would be charging them is when the inside of the trailer is over 32°F. Each battery has built in protection that prevents charging when too hot or cold, and shuts them down when the amp hours gets down to 10%. Battleborn suggests removing them if the expected temperature is under 4°F, which I hope to avoid for a long time!



The batteries are their GC2 sized 12v versions, which means I can put 2 of them in the Escape battery box. While only 100 amp hours each, they can be drawn down to 10% capacity, and provide 13.7V or so right to the end, giving me close to the equivalent of 4 AGM batteries, my original plan. The 4 AGM batteries would weigh 260 pounds; the 2 lithium weigh 62 pounds Since I'm close to the GVW of the trailer (I know, I need to get rid of stuff) saving 200 pounds would be helpful.



There are still a couple of gotchas - I'll need to change the converter to a 35 amp version that does lithium batteries (PD4635LIV) because the 55 amp WFCO converter will not charge the lithium batteries fully, and because I have a 700 watt propane generator that would overload using the current converter since the lithium batteries do not have an absorption stage & draw the full output of the converter until the BPS determines they are full.



I will also change out the solar controller for the same reason - the GoPower controller does not do lithium well. I'm still deciding between a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 with Bluetooth dongle or 50 amp version with built in Bluetooth. And, since I'm doing all that, I will also change the battery monitor from the Trimetric to a Victron. Anyone looking for a good deal on a slightly used battery system?



I will post photos of the process, as well as how well it all works. Even though the batteries are warranted for 10 years to be within 80% of their initial amp hours, I know I can't justify the cost; I'm mostly doing it to stop firing off the propane detector, and for fun.


Way to lead the charge, Jon! [emoji367]
__________________
💩-p+☕️+n
sclifrickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 11:24 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Quincy, Alabama
Trailer: Still Deciding
Posts: 48
Plus the Li Batteries are rated to be recharged 3,000-5,000 times.........that should last awhile
Ret.LEO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 12:23 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Greg A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Seventy Degrees"
Posts: 3,495
Love the Lithium solution, Jon. Can’t wait to follow ur install and performance in the field. The Battleborn’s are on sale right now as well. I’m looking at doing this soon as well and will move the batteries inside under the U dinette bench and off the tongue.
Greg A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 03:43 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Bear101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ennismore, Ontario
Trailer: 2017 Escape 19
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post

There are still a couple of gotchas - I'll need to change the converter to a 35 amp version that does lithium batteries (PD4635LIV) because the 55 amp WFCO converter will not charge the lithium batteries fully, and because I have a 700 watt propane generator that would overload using the current converter since the lithium batteries do not have an absorption stage & draw the full output of the converter until the BPS determines they are full.


Hello Vermilye
We are thinking about splurging on battle born Lithum ion bateries for our 19 and I noticed that for your switch to Lithium you are suggesting you will upgrade your WFCO converter(WF8955) with PD4635LIV. Why are you not upgrading with the PD recommended PD4655LIV?
The reason I ask is that this is excaty what we will be doing but we were thinking of the PD4655 because that is indicated on a PD site
https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithi...acement-units/
Thank ou for sharing your thoughts,
Bear101
Bear101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 05:01 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear101 View Post
Hello Vermilye
We are thinking about splurging on battle born Lithum ion bateries for our 19 and I noticed that for your switch to Lithium you are suggesting you will upgrade your WFCO converter(WF8955) with PD4635LIV. Why are you not upgrading with the PD recommended PD4655LIV?
The reason I ask is that this is excaty what we will be doing but we were thinking of the PD4655 because that is indicated on a PD site
https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithi...acement-units/
Thank ou for sharing your thoughts,
Bear101
The reason for going with a smaller converter (the 35 amp) is because I purchased a Ryobi 900 watt propane generator. It only does 700 watts continuously, and since I plan to use it only when there is a string of cloudy days it top off the batteries, the larger converter would draw too much. One of the good/bad things about lithium is the batteries are either in the bulk charging phase drawing the full output of the converter, or in float. Since I will only be using the generator when the batteries are down, the converter will be drawing 655 watts at 120V until it switches to the float mode.

If you are using a 2K generator (or none at all) the 55 amp version is good.
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 07:36 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Bear101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ennismore, Ontario
Trailer: 2017 Escape 19
Posts: 119
Thank You Vermilye
We do not have a generator currently but I have been looking at the Honda 2200i with a propane adapter kit. Which should work with the 55 version. Cheers!
Bear101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 09:01 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
If you are using a 2K generator (or none at all) the 55 amp version is good.
So to reiterate-- you wouldn't need to change out the WFCO converter if you were charging the lithium batteries only via solar and sometimes line voltage. Line voltage won't charge the new batteries to 100% with the WFCO converter, but the solar panels will, given the right conditions. Is that right?
__________________
Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 09:21 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Bear101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ennismore, Ontario
Trailer: 2017 Escape 19
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis View Post
So to reiterate-- you wouldn't need to change out the WFCO converter if you were charging the lithium batteries only via solar and sometimes line voltage. Line voltage won't charge the new batteries to 100% with the WFCO converter, but the solar panels will, given the right conditions. Is that right?
Hi Mike Lewis
I think what Vermilye is saying here is that if you want to fully charge the lithium batteries from shore power then you can carry out the conversion I indicated modifying the WFCO charging station with the addition of the PD4655LIV and it will work but just not with his generator. For the solar charging of lithium he also made a change because the GoPower controller does not charge lithium batteries well.
Bear101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 08:29 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
I will also change the battery monitor from the Trimetric to a Victron.
I was mulling this over today while driving to Savannah. The battery monitor may not matter. Since the lithium system can be drawn down to 10% and then will automatically shut down, you will have 180 amp-hours to use willy-nilly without having to worry about battery charge levels or anything. That's quite a bit, and the worst thing that could happen when you use it up is that the DC system would shut down without damaging itself. Given that, you might be able to get by with the rudimentary charge level data shown in the solar controller or the inverter and not really need a battery monitor at all. Yeah, I know you already have one; I'm just thinking out loud.

But I understand wanting a battery monitor that can be read remotely. My experience with products that transmit data via Bluetooth has been that they are mediocre. To me, the tech barely works. So I suggest you pick the Victron monitor that you think has the most robust Bluetooth feature. I predict it won't be robust at all, but that it will sometimes work while the alternative will mostly not work. Unfortunately that has been my experience with Bluetooth.
__________________
Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 08:03 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
sclifrickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Trailer: 2010 17B “MATT”, then 2017 19 “Lilly”
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis View Post
I was mulling this over today while driving to Savannah. The battery monitor may not matter. Since the lithium system can be drawn down to 10% and then will automatically shut down, you will have 180 amp-hours to use willy-nilly without having to worry about battery charge levels or anything. That's quite a bit, and the worst thing that could happen when you use it up is that the DC system would shut down without damaging itself. Given that, you might be able to get by with the rudimentary charge level data shown in the solar controller or the inverter and not really need a battery monitor at all. Yeah, I know you already have one; I'm just thinking out loud.

But I understand wanting a battery monitor that can be read remotely. My experience with products that transmit data via Bluetooth has been that they are mediocre. To me, the tech barely works. So I suggest you pick the Victron monitor that you think has the most robust Bluetooth feature. I predict it won't be robust at all, but that it will sometimes work while the alternative will mostly not work. Unfortunately that has been my experience with Bluetooth.

Regarding the BT capable Victrons, also be aware that they are completely insecure. Our neighbor has one (BMV-712, I believe) and it is both beautiful and snazzy! And I love the phone app. However, anyone within BT range can pair with it *and change any of its settings*. Zero security.
__________________
💩-p+☕️+n
sclifrickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 08:16 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
The Bluetooth protocol came along late enough that its developers should have known to have security built-in, and they didn't. There ought to be a law...
__________________
Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 10:51 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear101 View Post
Hi Mike Lewis
I think what Vermilye is saying here is that if you want to fully charge the lithium batteries from shore power then you can carry out the conversion I indicated modifying the WFCO charging station with the addition of the PD4655LIV and it will work but just not with his generator. For the solar charging of lithium he also made a change because the GoPower controller does not charge lithium batteries well.
Correct. Even if I was going to stick with a 2K generator or spend most of my time plugged in, I would want to replace the WFCO converter.

The problem with using the WFCO converter with lithium batteries is that while the specified bulk voltage of the WFCO converter is 14.4V, which is the optimal voltage for lithium, WFCO converters seem to have a difficult time going into the bulk charging mode. The absorption mode produces 13.6 volts, too low to fully charge lithium batteries. Lithium batteries do not use the absorption mode; they are either in bulk or float, so a converter that spends most of its time in absorption at 13.6V is not ideal. While it is possible that the low source resistance of the lithium batteries would convince the WFCO converter to go into bulk, I'd rather not take the chance.

Another problem is the float voltage provided by the WFCO converter is 13.2, which is too low for lithium (recommended float is 13.6V).

Again, my reason for choosing the 35 amp lithium converter is because my generator is only rated at 700 watts (900 peak). A 55 amp converter would draw more than this when the converter is in the bulk mode (where it would be with lithium when I needed the generator). the 35 amp converter draws 650 watts input at 35 amps output.

By the way, the Ryobi 900 watt propane generator was delivered. Quiet for a generator, starts easily, and appears to do what I want. As I mentioned, once I start the conversion to lithium, I'll start a thread to let people know how it goes. I don't plan to start until after I get back from the Spring Fling in New Hampshire.
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 10:55 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
The Apple App Store has a Victron app for their solar controllers that will run on Apple laptops, fyi. According to the description it can communicate with the controller via either the controller's Bluetooth interface or its USB connection. Using it via the USB connection would be a way to avoid BT insecurity. That's good to know.
__________________
Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 11:52 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
sclifrickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Trailer: 2010 17B “MATT”, then 2017 19 “Lilly”
Posts: 1,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis View Post
Using it via the USB connection would be a way to avoid BT insecurity. That's good to know.

Only if you can turn the BT off. Otherwise any Joe with a smart phone can walk by your rig and hook in. If they were only able to read data that would be one thing, but as I’ve tested with my neighbor’s rig, it’s a full read/write access with no authentication or verification. Kind of a shame as everything else about the Victron seems really nice.
__________________
💩-p+☕️+n
sclifrickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 10:59 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
According to Victron's overview datasheet, their SmartSolar controllers have Bluetooth built-in and their BlueSolar controllers do not and need the Bluetooth dongle. Both models have their VE.direct dataport and should be able to use their (extra cost) data-to-USB cable. So to avoid BT security issues it appears that one would buy the BlueSolar controller and the data cable to interface with a laptop.
__________________
Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 11:06 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
Regarding installation of the Battle Born lithium batteries-- It seems to me that you could remove the Escape 21's battery box altogether, as you wouldn't need it for the lithiums. There could be several different ways of securing the new batteries, e.g. screwing down footman loops on the trailer floor then strapping the batteries down with a nylon strap. The batteries aren't that heavy so that should hold them in place. Then you could add more lithiums in the future until you run out of space or money.
__________________
Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 11:18 AM   #38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: NA, New York
Trailer: looking
Posts: 4
6 digit pin code required

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/v...smart_pin_code
bobby b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 12:37 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby b View Post

Thanks. I looked at the hardware manuals and datasheets; I didn't think to look for the software manual.
__________________
Mike Lewis
She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie-- propane
Photos and travelogues here: mikelewisimages.com
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 12:38 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Perry Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby b View Post
That's cheating! You read the instructions!

Enjoy,

Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
Perry Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.