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Old 04-11-2019, 06:56 PM   #1
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Solar or just the prep

I am definately going the solar route as I do enough desert boondocking to make it worthwhile. Even tho I already have 2 100 watt portable panels, I want to start with 2 panels on the roof.

Unfortunately, the cost for 2 panels installed is exactly double the cost of one panel even tho it doesn't include the solar controller for the second. I'm told that the amount not spent on a controller is equivalent to extra work needed for the second panel. How 2 panels, 1 controller, 2 sets of wire, mounts, installation, etc costs $1700cdn beats me but that is what it is.

Making this cost more objectionable to me is that I will be replacing the solar controller that ETI installs with one that can handle the 2 rooftop plus my 2 portable panels. (I will be using my existing Renogy Commander MPPT 40 amp controller and running the panels parallel.) I also know that the price of solar panels in the US is near $1/watt so the ETI installation cost comes to way more than do-it-yourself - but I know nothing about installing panels on a fiberglass "egg" so I'm weighing my options.

My build is already quite non-standard so I have to consider what can I do and what is best to have ETI do? Of the options I'm aware of, it is either have ETI do everything and then replace some things, or have just the solar prep done and do everything else myself.

The thing is, I do not know exactly what the prep includes besides the skimpy description of MC-4 terminated wires being ran.

Are the wires ran from roof to where the controller might go? I ask because ETI will not run a hard-wired camera cable from the roof rear down thru the inside to the tongue even tho I think it would use the fridge vent to go inside.

Is it 2 sets of wires or one with a combiner box?

Are mounts installed or is that up to me? This is where I have absolutely no experience.

If mounts are installed, what spacing so I know the panel size needed? Can the spacing be specified?

There is probably more that I don't know but if I can do it myself I can possibly save a fair amount; tho only about 2% of the total rv cost so it may not be worth it.

So far ETI is slow responding to these questions - the fire may be slowing things down for this where other questions haven't been affected.

Anyone with knowledge or experience with working with the prep option that can provide me with additional info?
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:24 PM   #2
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From the horses mouth

Given the amount of technical information you need I would call ETI and request a call back from Reace.
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:21 PM   #3
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You've obviously never priced what a solar installer would charge. $640 (US dollars) per panel with a controller is cheap! Really cheap! That's $1,280 (US) for 340 watts! I have friends with 300 watts on their Airstream who paid over $4,000 (again, US) to a well known installer for the convenience of not having to do it themselves. However, do-it-yourselfers can always do it for less.

Enjoy,

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Old 04-11-2019, 08:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by StillCampin View Post
Unfortunately, the cost for 2 panels installed is exactly double the cost of one panel even tho it doesn't include the solar controller for the second. I'm told that the amount not spent on a controller is equivalent to extra work needed for the second panel. How 2 panels, 1 controller, 2 sets of wire, mounts, installation, etc costs $1700cdn beats me but that is what it is.

Just for giggles I looked up the Amazon prices. If buying the single Gopower panel and controller and the single expansion panel it'd run $1345 CAD. Granted ETI should get them cheaper them retail.


I installed my own panel on the roof, a little time consuming but not all that difficult if you are a do it yourselfer. I used Grape panels from HD. I got "solar ready", it was just the cables from the roof to the area of the batteries. The roof end had mc4's, the battery end was just the bare cables. No cables were run for a controller. This was in 2014 so things may have changed. They used a cable gland to go through the roof and some Proflex.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:47 PM   #5
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If you have ETI install 2 panels you will have 8 more penetrations through the roof to maintain. Prior to around 2015 they used VHB tape or 3M 5200 yet when some owners reported panels flying off they decided on through-bolting as to greatly(if not completely) reduce exposure to liability.

AM Solar in Springfield, OR has been using VHB tape for over two decades and report they have never had a panel fly off. The preparation is critical and they evidently make sure that is done right every time. You can see great DIY videos on their website and can call them for answers to questions- a great company!
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:03 AM   #6
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As I found out during my Built Sheet stage on the 21' you can either have two panels OR the TV antenna but not both. There isn't enough room on the roof per ETI.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:01 AM   #7
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As I found out during my Built Sheet stage on the 21' you can either have two panels OR the TV antenna but not both. There isn't enough room on the roof per ETI.
Ditto for the 5.0. But from pictures I've seen a solar panel in front of the rooftop escape hatch while pics on the ETI site shows the Jack antenna further back. But, I suppose the pic I saw with the panel on front could have been customer mounted.

Fortunately, I use a satellite dish for tv, not off air, 99%+ of the time. For that <1% of the time I'll just continue to use the antenna on a pole that I have now.

If nothing else, the lack of the Jack antenna makes room for the XM antenna I'll be putting on the roof.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:21 PM   #8
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Ditto for the 5.0. But from pictures I've seen a solar panel in front of the rooftop escape hatch while pics on the ETI site shows the Jack antenna further back. But, I suppose the pic I saw with the panel on front could have been customer mounted.

Fortunately, I use a satellite dish for tv, not off air, 99%+ of the time. For that <1% of the time I'll just continue to use the antenna on a pole that I have now.

If nothing else, the lack of the Jack antenna makes room for the XM antenna I'll be putting on the roof.
Our late 2018 5.0 has dual panels, and the front panel is to the rear of the hatch. Side note, you can clean the leaves off the panel from the bed through the hatch.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:02 AM   #9
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Follow-up

Reace called me and explained exactly what the solar prep entails: just the cable run from a rooftop entrance fixture to the area under the dinette where they would put the controller. Everything else, including any mounting mechanism is left for the customer/installer.

I've decided to have ETI do the full solar install and then I'll replace the solar controller, inverter, displays & such. I'm going to be moving the remotes to above the fridge anyway.

Regarding the tv antenna & the second panel, Reace thinks the location of the front panel has recently moved so the antenna may be able to be installed. I asked him that if he verifies that to be the case then I wanted to have the antenna added back to my build sheet.
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Old 04-13-2019, 01:47 PM   #10
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Follow-up

Reace called me and explained exactly what the solar prep entails: just the cable run from a rooftop entrance fixture to the area under the dinette where they would put the controller. Everything else, including any mounting mechanism is left for the customer/installer.

I've decided to have ETI do the full solar install and then I'll replace the solar controller, inverter, displays & such. I'm going to be moving the remotes to above the fridge anyway.

Regarding the tv antenna & the second panel, Reace thinks the location of the front panel has recently moved so the antenna may be able to be installed. I asked him that if he verifies that to be the case then I wanted to have the antenna added back to my build sheet.
If you are going to replace the solar display, you may want to ask Reace to not mount it as it leaves a big hole in the paneling.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:26 PM   #11
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If you are going to replace the solar display, you may want to ask Reace to not mount it as it leaves a big hole in the paneling.
Already done.
Reace says he will likely change the wording a bit to make it clear to the installer.

And Reace says he will make a note to have some scrap pieces of paneling left in the trailer at orientation.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:55 PM   #12
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Already done.

Reace says he will likely change the wording a bit to make it clear to the installer.



And Reace says he will make a note to have some scrap pieces of paneling left in the trailer at orientation.


Be careful about the “prewire” verbiage on the build sheet. Anecdotal example: My neighbor recently purchased an E19, with rooftop solar and an inverter. He intended to replace the solar controller with an aftermarket MPPT controller, so had ETI “mount” the factory solar controller “inside the bench”. So far so good. The factory inverter, however, uses the factory solar controller as the on/off remote switch, meaning that once the solar controller goes away, so does the inverter remote. Knowing this, my neighbor requested that the inverter be wired with a stand-alone remote - the same remote they use if doing an install with inverter only and no solar. Both my neighbor and I explained this all explicitly to his sales coordinator. She understood, and added the details to the build sheet. But she also used the word “prewire” in the description. We called and asked if this was the correct verbiage, as he didn’t want a prewire, but a functional inverter. She assured us that she had checked, and that this was the correct verbiage. Okay, we said, knowing that the build sheet is an instruction sheet for the production department, and trusting them to use the right words for their own internal communication. You can see where this is going, right? I went with the neighbor for pickup, and as we’re looking things over I notice that there’s no inverter. “Maybe they’re installing it somewhere new,” I thought. Nope. No inverter, even though the build sheet showed the full price paid for a complete inverter installation. There was a nicely wired and mounted remote for one though. Long and short of it they apologized and installed the conveniently pre-wired inverter in about an hour. Moral: Watch out for “prewiring”.
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:15 PM   #13
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...
No inverter, even though the build sheet showed the full price paid for a complete inverter installation.
...
I wouldn't mind that type of inverter and solar controller install since it would mean I wouldn't have to take them out to put mine in.
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:51 PM   #14
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I wouldn't mind that type of inverter and solar controller install since it would mean I wouldn't have to take them out to put mine in.


Well, then, now you know how to get it [emoji6]
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:17 AM   #15
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Here (other than panels) is the system of my dreams
https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...ithium-bundle/
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:32 AM   #16
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Here (other than panels) is the system of my dreams
https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...ithium-bundle/
Well, I should be able to report on most of that system, with the exception of the inverter. I will be installing the rest & keeping my GoPower inverter this summer.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:39 AM   #17
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Well, I should be able to report on most of that system, with the exception of the inverter. I will be installing the rest & keeping my GoPower inverter this summer.
Excellent
Please keep us updated with maybe with some pics?
Very appreciated!
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:32 AM   #18
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Well, I should be able to report on most of that system, with the exception of the inverter. I will be installing the rest & keeping my GoPower inverter this summer.
What’s your plan on avoiding charging in freezing temps? Drive south? Since that’s not an option for me yet, I’m thinking with the weight savings it might not be too much of a hassle to pull them as needed.
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:07 PM   #19
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Here is the system of my dreams...
Not a dream system but this is what I'll have (at least to begin with).

I'm not too sure about the master BattleBorn relay; it looks like it would be a good battery cut-off switch.

Yes, 2 inverters. The 2000 for "whole house" when needed and the little 300 for AV stuff like satellite tv receiver & cell phone amp.

I already had the Commander 40 amp mppt controller. Solar will be 2 panels on the roof with 2 portable 100 watt suitcase panels when needed.
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:53 PM   #20
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What’s your plan on avoiding charging in freezing temps? Drive south? Since that’s not an option for me yet, I’m thinking with the weight savings it might not be too much of a hassle to pull them as needed.
Well, Jon does spend his winters in the south. Another thing is that in the 21 the batteries are inside as opposed to on the tongue.
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