When at campsites

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Back in the 1990s the Cato Institute published a paper that said consumer-level recycling of anything other than aluminum consumed more energy than it saved, due to the extra fuel costs of collecting and processing the recyclables.

It's not just about energy; it's also about the raw materials. Recycled paper doesn't need trees, recycled plastic doesn't need oil, etc. Recycling also avoids the need to dispose of the material, such as in landfills. Even if recycling clearly used more energy, it would still be valuable.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

It's not just about energy; it's also about the raw materials. Recycled paper doesn't need trees, recycled plastic doesn't need oil, etc. Recycling also avoids the need to dispose of the material, such as in landfills. Even if recycling clearly used more energy, it would still be valuable.

x2! Well said.

[Fox hunt]

We are only charged for garbage so smaller can less cost but we get a free recycle container we don't need to wash or sort recycling and we also get a yard waste combo compost container. Only thing I don't like is garbage is only picked up every two weeks can get tough during the holidays my kids seem to put everything in the wrong containers Seattle has different rules. I try to recycle when camping.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Heard a recycling advocate the other day who said recycling glass takes more energy than it saves. They have to turn bottles back into sand. Broken glass also contaminates valuable recycled products.
That's why we have a separate bin for glass.

Hmmm,
In Baltimore back in the 60's they used glass fragments, not sand in the asphalt mix to pave streets, gave them a glitter look at night in the rain. Never to be duplicated.

[padlin]

Never heard of communities recycling organics either, mulch pile out back sure, but nothing formal. Sounds like it's kind of regional, must be a reason.

[kstock11]

I found it extremely funny when certain state campgrounds started recycling glass and aluminum. The campgrounds that prohibited consuming alcoholic beverages had recycling bins full of empty beer and wine bottles. I guess the campers bring their recycling from home!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by kstock11

I found it extremely funny when certain state campgrounds started recycling glass and aluminum. The campgrounds that prohibited consuming alcoholic beverages had recycling bins full of empty beer and wine bottles. I guess the campers bring their recycling from home!

True. Big sign saying "no alcohol" and the trash cans are full of empties.

[MyronL]

Talking trash...I keep a container beside the sink for the organics and have a 40 gallon mulch pail outside for the garden. I take my house trash and recyclables to the county dump every couple weeks, never take time to separate aluminum cans from the tin ones, rarely wash them out. Feeling guilty about that, but it passes.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Recycling also avoids the need to dispose of the material, such as in landfills. Even if recycling clearly used more energy, it would still be valuable.

Cato also said that the U.S. could bury all of its trash for 1000 years in one landfill fifteen miles square. According to them, we're not running out of space for landfills.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

It's not just about energy; it's also about the raw materials. Recycled paper doesn't need trees, recycled plastic doesn't need oil, etc.

Also, the U.S. grows pulpwood much faster than it uses it, so we're not running out of trees. The process of making paper is polluting, so that is the reason for recycling paper, not to save trees.
Regarding recycling plastic-- if it takes more oil to recycle the plastic than it does to make it, are you really saving anything?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by padlin

Never heard of communities recycling organics either, mulch pile out back sure, but nothing formal. Sounds like it's kind of regional, must be a reason.

It is regional, and I have found that most US friends sound like their waste collection is well behind most areas of Canada. Not sure why though. The problem with the mulch pile, is you should never put animal waste in it, like bones, fat, poop, etc, as well as branches and larger yard waste items, whereas anything organic, like newspaper, paper napkins, plate scrapings, etc can be put in it.

We maintain a few yard composting bins to create a good compost for yard use, but they do not get hot enough to break down some of the other things I mentioned above.

Calgary recently had a month where they waived disposal fees of organic yard was, and I took advantage of that big time, taking 6 trip with my 14 cubic metre (18 cubic yard) dump trailer, cleaning up the jungle of a yard we just bought. Still lots more to go, but this is monster poplars I will have to pay an arborist to take down.

Originally Posted by kstock11

I found it extremely funny when certain state campgrounds started recycling glass and aluminum. The campgrounds that prohibited consuming alcoholic beverages had recycling bins full of empty beer and wine bottles. I guess the campers bring their recycling from home!

I have never camped at one of these places, but are you not allowed to drink in your own trailer at least. Besides, how wold they know? You certainly won't find me at a campground like this unless absolutely necessary.

This photos shows what we use for recycling in our trailer, one side of the top drawer is for garbage, the other for recyclables, and bottles and cans are kept separate if the campground has a place specific for them.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Cato also said that the U.S. could bury all of its trash for 1000 years in one landfill fifteen miles square. According to them, we're not running out of space for landfills.

Depends on where you live. My brother lives on Nantucket Island (about 10 x 15 miles, 35 miles off Cape Cod). They take all recycling seriously, even to the extent of building a separate building at the landfill called "Take it or Leave It" that is used for books, clothes, and anything that looks to be reusable.

They also have the standard sections for aluminum, cardboard, plastic, glass, etc. With limited room, very expensive real estate, and the cost of moving materials off island, they do all they can, including individual & town composting. They are even "mining" the old dump, grinding the material to sort & compact it.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Depends on where you live.

That is what Anne Arundel County, Maryland, told me back in the 1990s when it started its recycling program. I lived there then. They were using two sets of trucks, burning twice the fuel, to pick up the same amount of trash as before. I wrote a letter to point this out, enclosing the Cato report. The county responded, saying that there may be plenty of room in the U.S. to bury trash, but not in Anne Arundel County. The county had no choice.

They had a point. You could get a nice view of the Chesapeake Bay from the top of that landfill, which might have been the highest point in the county for all I know.

Santa Rosa County, Florida, where I live now, had a recycling program but about a year ago its contractor quit, saying there was no market for recycled materials. Since I was away for six months this year I'm not sure how this was resolved. Of course, we don't have the space problem Nantucket or central Maryland has.

[gbaglo]

You've got the Grand Canyon don't you?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Cato also said that the U.S. could bury all of its trash for 1000 years in one landfill fifteen miles square. According to them, we're not running out of space for landfills.

Based on simple observation of the growth in size of actual landfill operations, this is obviously not plausible. I'll have to look up these people and their motivation.

[SFDavis50]

About a half mile from me is an Open Space due to the fact that it is an old landfill which was located a ways out of town. Now it is surrounded on three sides by housing developments. Thirty years ago they had to drill into it in many areas to stick in methane releasing pipes. The problem isn't a lack of space but locating the landfills so they aren't too far away to get to. Of course, in the 1970's the population of the US was about 170 million, now it is well over 300 million.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Based on simple observation of the growth in size of actual landfill operations, this is obviously not plausible. I'll have to look up these people and their motivation.

Based on the actual total volume of the fill, it is plausible, but certainly not practical. There's no reasonable way any country as vast as the US could put all it's waste in one location. The claim may be technically correct but ultimately meaningless.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Based on the actual total volume of the fill, it is plausible, but certainly not practical. There's no reasonable way any country as vast as the US could put all it's waste in one location. The claim may be technically correct but ultimately meaningless.

I don't think it's even plausible. For example, Edmonton filled a landfill which was about 1% of that area in a few decades, so the waste produced by four hundred times the population for more than ten times as long wouldn't fit.

I think some people - the Cato Institute in this case - count on no one "doing the math" to sell whatever message they choose to push. What that message is and why they push it would be a political discussion, so I'll skip that.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

What that message is and why they push it would be a political discussion, so I'll skip that.

I hear that. It shouldn't be political to want to reduce waste, encourage recycling, and be a good steward of what we have. But nowadays, alas, everything seems political.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

You've got the Grand Canyon don't you?

Nah-- save it for a dam! Wonder how many gigawatts you could get out of that?