2017 21' windows options, panicking

[SouthernCamper]

So our build sheet is due July 12, and somehow I'm just realizing that the windows don't slide open anymore, they just awning up about 6". This has sent me into a bit of a panic, as I'm a "wide open spaces, air and sunshine flowing from one end of the camper to the other" kind of person. I grew up in a pop-up, with essentially both sides being completely open netting during the day. I know I won't get this kind of open, but I'm already kind of sweating thinking about just a little flip up in the windows...

I asked ETI and the old style slider thermal windows aren't available. What windows do you get if you don't get thermal? Is it worth it to even consider not getting thermal just so I can have different windows?

For those who are like me, and know the real struggle of needing more openness and air in your camper, am I going to be seriously disappointed with the awning windows??

(FYI I can't view an Escape before deciding. The closest ones are too far from us in South Louisiana.)

Thank you!

[NW Cat Owner]

I, too, like the slider type windows. When I heard ETI was switching over to the awning style when they revamped their trailer style, I wasn't too keen on the idea. At that time you could get the thermal slider windows. Didn't know you couldn't get them any longer. But I haven't kept up with their current build sheet offerings.

Anyway, after using our new 21' for appx 5000 miles in the past 3 months or so, I can say I'm not bothered by the awning style windows. Obviously we decided to go with that style, after much debate.

I can still feel a good breeze coming through them. I can't compare them to a slider style in the same trailer, so I can't tell you if I get more or less air coming through. You can always turn on the Maxx fan to get more air flowing through.

I love the sound of rain, so it's been nice to crack the window open a bit and listen to it and not have to worry about rain coming in like I would if I did that with the sliders.

All of the windows in our trailer open. We did not get the extra window at the front of the trailer. That was never a consideration for us as I like to read in bed before falling asleep and didn't think that was possible with a window up there (same reason we didn't get the shelf over the bed).

Both the rear window and the one next to the bed are split so you can open one side or both. All of the windows have screens on them.

And if you really want things wide open, I guess you can go outside and sit under your awning.

If you don't get thermal, you're probably gonna hear the noises outside more (esp the annoying type). And I think there's more condensation going on. Least from what I remember others posting elsewhere. And more heat/cold transfer from inside/outside.

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

All of the windows in our trailer open. We did not get the extra window at the front of the trailer. That was never a consideration for us as I like to read in bed before falling asleep and didn't think that was possible with a window up there (same reason we didn't get the shelf over the bed).

Both the rear window and the one next to the bed are split so you can open one side or both. All of the windows have screens on them.

Very helpful window info, thank you! I didn't know about the split windows, that's neat.

If you can, can you guess whether you were right about the window or shelf obstructing your bed reading? Did you get a shelf credit?

Thank you!

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

Very helpful window info, thank you! I didn't know about the split windows, that's neat.

If you can, can you guess whether you were right about the window or shelf obstructing your bed reading? Did you get a shelf credit?

Thank you!

We got insulated sliders and we like them. I also like my emergency window which is an awning. Since you don't really have a choice any more, go with awning over non insulated. You will be ok with it.
However, the shelf will prevent reading in bed! unless you are just about laying flat. We're still contemplating how to remedy that.
Anyone ever taken the shelf out or moved it up?

[Steven M]

I agree with Laura, the new windows give plenty of air and breeze. An added benefit is when it rains the windows can still be opened and let in air without letting in water. I turn the Maxxfan on exhaust and the trailer cools down quickly.

I also like the look and so far haven't seen any of the dreaded black streaks that the older style sliders seem to get under the windows, added bonus .

[ReagentGrade]

Adrienne,
Even if an awning window doesn't provide as much air flow (a subject of debate), you'll have two more windows that open - the back windows. Laura alluded to this in her response. This not only provides more open area, but it allows you to capture a breeze coming directly from the back. Sliding windows cannot do this because the back windows do not open at all.
I'm not speaking from actual Escape experience because my trailer won't be ready until September. But my Bigfoot was a fiberglass trailer with sliding non-thermal windows. The air flow was good unless the wind was from the back - then there was no airflow. And I had lots of condensation. Inside when camping in cold weather, outside when camping in hot humid weather. Since you're in Lafayette, you know all about outside condensation. This isn't a big deal unless to want to look out the windows
You probably get more rain than we get in Houston, so you'll be glad to have ventilation in the rain.
I'm greatly looking forward to having these windows. And, I think they look so much better than sliders (my two cents).
Judging from all the posts on the subject, I really don't think this will be an issue for you. I can't recall a single post where a new owner had a big issue with these windows.
My biggest concern with these windows is that my back windows with be tinted. I want to mount a tiny backup camera inside the back window. I'm not sure how the tint will affect it.
Rich

[Mary F]

Originally Posted by Ginger

However, the shelf will prevent reading in bed! unless you are just about laying flat. We're still contemplating how to remedy that.
Anyone ever taken the shelf out or moved it up?

We didn't get the shelf, but the headboard we added (to keep us off the window) might also be a mod y'all would be interested in.

It's not obvious in the pic, but there's no padding at the bottom of the headboard, so the mattress shoves up underneath the padded part. The board itself is about 1.5 inches off the wall (we didn't want to be pushing it against the wall when we lean on it) so the mattress is about 2 inches from the wall - which doesn't seem to be a problem on the foot end. YMMV, because ours is the curved wall/classic, but it's as if the mattress was sized to be away from the front wall to begin with.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

If you can, can you guess whether you were right about the window or shelf obstructing your bed reading? Did you get a shelf credit?

We didn't get a credit for removing the window. As Ginger says, you can't sit up in bed and read with that shelf. That was a no-brainer decision for me to make. I think they might be able to position it higher up but then you wouldn't have much space to put things on there if they did that.

I want Dirk to build me a little flip-up shelf I can put alongside the bathroom wall for a fan. I don't like air blowing right across my face when I'm sleeping so I angle it so it's blowing across my lower body while I'm sleeping. When I need a fan, that is.

If you need that shelf for something like a CPAP machine, this might be an option for you. I don't know if ETI will install one of their flip-up counters on that wall. I never asked, but you can.

Originally Posted by Ginger

However, the shelf will prevent reading in bed! unless you are just about laying flat. We're still contemplating how to remedy that.
Anyone ever taken the shelf out or moved it up?

Ask ETI! I do know they told me it could be positioned however I wanted it when I told them I didn't want it. At one point it was optional (I believe) and then it was standard.

Originally Posted by ReagentGrade

Adrienne,
Even if an awning window doesn't provide as much air flow (a subject of debate), you'll have two more windows that open - the back windows. Laura alluded to this in her response. This not only provides more open area, but it allows you to capture a breeze coming directly from the back. Sliding windows cannot do this because the back windows do not open at all.

My biggest concern with these windows is that my back windows with be tinted. I want to mount a tiny backup camera inside the back window. I'm not sure how the tint will affect it.
Rich

I forgot the back window doesn't open with the sliders. Yeah, you're gonna like being able to open that back window! I open those up quite a bit when I'm sitting there reading on my u-shaped dinette plus filler board/cushion.

Yeah, that tint has been a problem with taking any "Out my Back Window" thread photos. As well as the screens on the windows. But I'll still take 'em over taking any rear window photos. I'll just step outside the trailer if need be.

We purchased the rear view/back up camera that ETI offers. It mounts on the top of the trailer on the outside. No worries about tinted windows that way.

[Donna D.]

The way I handle the non-opening window in the rear of Ten Forward is to open the egress window on the drivers side and the slider window on the passenger side. Cross ventilation.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

The way I handle the non-opening window in the rear of Ten Forward is to open the egress window on the drivers side and the slider window on the passenger side. Cross ventilation.

Yes ma'am, that's how we do it too.

[Losangeles]

FWIIW

dont panic

our 2c?

we had Casita before (single pane sliders) - we have the new awing thermal, and we MUCH prefer the new awing thermal

why?

thermal action in both heat and cold
zero condensation
much quieter. much.
plenty of cross breeze. plenty. lots of air goes thru.
opening rear double window
windows open in rain.
they also look great from outside.

also consider resale..... i was told by ETI that about 90% of thermal windows Escape sells are the awning style ... that must tell you something.

just our 2c.

john

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Losangeles

FWIIW

dont panic

our 2c?

we had Casita before (single pane sliders) - we have the new awing thermal, and we MUCH prefer the new awing thermal

why?

thermal action in both heat and cold
zero condensation
much quieter. much.
plenty of cross breeze. plenty. lots of air goes thru.
opening rear double window
windows open in rain.
they also look great from outside.

also consider resale..... i was told by ETI that about 90% of thermal windows Escape sells are the awning style ... that must tell you something.

just our 2c.

john

I am going to have to disagree with you. Being respectful of your choice. Because a manufacturer choses to use a certain product doesn't mean it is the greatest or best product . There are many reason's for their decision . Many high end manufacturers are still using slide windows on their rigs . There are even better awning windows out there that are used , that can open more then the ones Escapes uses. They are also lighter weight and used on many European RV's and now coming into our markets . I for one would love those awning windows . Pat

[cpaharley2008]

Hehr glass windows are used on Airstreams and made right here in USA. The light weight ones are Dometic and are thermoplastic and made overseas. I have had them on my T@da and Lance Trailers. Are they better? They are not as flush as the glass ones nor as dark tinted. Plastic or glass, domestic or foreign made, your choice.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Hehr glass windows are used on Airstreams and made right here in USA. The light weight ones are Dometic and are thermoplastic and made overseas. I have had them on my T@da and Lance Trailers. Are they better? They are not as flush as the glass ones nor as dark tinted. Plastic or glass, local or foreign made, your choice.

Jim When I played with them on a Sprinter I liked the fact they really would open up . It is pretty strong material like Lexan and really not just plastic as we know it. Oliver uses the sliders and they do put lots of quality items on their trailers . Lots of quality issues with Airstreams , I belong to their forum as well . I have tried out these frameless windows and wasn't impressed . I sat in a rig in the heat and didn't get the air ventiIation I expect . One dealer the seal was stuck and I didn't want to break window or the knob ,couldn't open the window . I let dealer do it from outside . My brother had to have all his on a new Winnebago class A replaced due to leaking .We like our sliders and trying to give another opinion here . Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The light weight ones are Dometic and are thermoplastic and made overseas.

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

It is pretty strong material like Lexan and really not just plastic as we know it.

Dometic windows (formerly branded "Seitz") are made of acrylic (or poly(methyl methacrylate)). Common trade names for acrylic sheet products include Plexiglas®, Lucite®, and Perspex®. Lexan™ is a trade name for polycarbonate, which is a different material.

Both acrylic and polycarbonate come in many variations, and both are thermoplastic polymers. This term - thermoplastic - is the origin of the term "plastic" which has now been (inappropriately) applied to just about every polymer material. "Plastic" now means essentially nothing, because people have so many different ideas of what it means... but yes, the Dometic window panes are "plastic", and more specifically thermoplastic.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

I am going to have to disagree with you. Being respectful of your choice. Because a manufacturer choses to use a certain product doesn't mean it is the greatest or best product . There are many reason's for their decision . Many high end manufacturers are still using slide windows on their rigs . There are even better awning windows out there that are used , that can open more then the ones Escapes uses. They are also lighter weight and used on many European RV's and now coming into our markets . I for one would love those awning windows . Pat

Pat - to clarify - what are you disagreeing with, from my post?

I did not say the thermal awning windows we have in our 2017 21' were the greatest, or best.

I also didnt speak to why ETI offers awning thermal windows, of that brand.

I just said why i liked them.

and to clarify... when I said "also consider resale..... i was told by ETI that about 90% of thermal windows Escape sells are the awning style ... that must tell you something. "

I meant that 90% of people who pick thermal windows from ETI ... pick awning style.... so consider that in terms of resale.



John

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Losangeles

I meant that 90% of people who pick thermal windows from ETI ... pick awning style.... so consider that in terms of resale.

But that only started with the 2017 2nd generation builds. The first 14 years of trailers, they were all sliders.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

But that only started with the 2017 2nd generation builds. The first 14 years of trailers, they were all sliders.

yes, of course.

I'm just saying when given the choice, 90% of buyers, when given a choice, pick the awning style thermal windows.

I think that means something, in terms of resale.

How much is up for personal interpretation.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Losangeles

yes, of course.

I'm just saying when given the choice, 90% of buyers, when given a choice, pick the awning style thermal windows.

I think that means something, in terms of resale.

How much is up for personal interpretation.

Escape is using awning windows now as standard, right?

Do I understand that Escape no longer will sell the sliders? They appear to only be selling frameless thermal as an option. I had the idea that it was a choice to be made for a short time between sliders and frameless.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Losangeles

yes, of course.

I'm just saying when given the choice, 90% of buyers, when given a choice, pick the awning style thermal windows.

I think that means something, in terms of resale.

How much is up for personal interpretation.

That could be debatable because many think the Classic trailers will be the most sought out . I didn't buy this trailer for resale , I bought it because I liked it. We all don't think alike . We all don't expect the same expectations either . Pat