Adding underfloor insulation

[canakiwi]

Ron,
Am close to deciding on purchase of a 21. Only hesitation is we spend a lot of nights boondocking when it gets down to -7C or so. I assume ETI's thermal windows and extra insulation will handle that for interior, but concern is still freezing of the water lines. Your solution seems a great idea. Is it possible to wrap or otherwise insulate the water lines from the water tank to interior also.

[Ron in BC]

Mine's a 19. My water lines are inside the trailer. On the 21 the waterlines might run side-to-side under the trailer. A 21 owner can confirm that.

If that's the case, then yes, the lines would need to be insulated. I'm not sure how well it'd work, again, maybe 21 owners can comment on their insulated lines experience.

Ron

[John in Santa Cruz]

My escape 21 has the optional undercarriage spray on foam as well as extra insulation and double pane. most of the plumbing is inside, the water pump and heater are under the bed, etc. I'm not sure where the kitchen sink water supply is routed, it does appear to be under the floor, but nothing is visible underneath, its all deep foam.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I'm not sure where the kitchen sink water supply is routed, it does appear to be under the floor, but nothing is visible underneath, its all deep foam.

It is underneath on my 5.0TA.

I wish seeing I had the U-shaped dinette it was run around through the bench. I could have easily done that when I was doing my cabinetry work, but never thought about it then. It would be a much tougher retrofit in the galley now, but I may have a look at that.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Mine's a 19. My water lines are inside the trailer. On the 21 the waterlines might run side-to-side under the trailer. A 21 owner can confirm that.

If that's the case, then yes, the lines would need to be insulated. I'm not sure how well it'd work, again, maybe 21 owners can comment on their insulated lines experience.

Ron

This might help. You can see the exposed plumbing lines under the 21 and the 5.0TA, but none under the 19. On the 19 you still have a pump suction line from the freshwater tank to inside the trailer that is exposed.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f3...9-a-11881.html

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

It is underneath on my 5.0TA.

I wish seeing I had the U-shaped dinette it was run around through the bench. I could have easily done that when I was doing my cabinetry work, but never thought about it then. It would be a much tougher retrofit in the galley now, but I may have a look at that.

on my 21, if the kitchen sink water was routed around the back of the U dinette, the hot water line would be way long, so you'd waste that much more water each time you needed hot.

[Farmgirl]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Ron I betcha that should work . Pat

Thank you for a clear explanation - you have a way with words!

[War Eagle]

For those who camp in sub-freezing weather, has anyone tried adding temporary skirting around the base of their camper to entrap warmer air underneath to help protect water and sewer lines. If so, what material did you use and how much do you think it helped? Growing up in Colorado, we had long rolls of old Army surplus quonset hut quilted insulation that we used to insulate a lot of things. It would have worked for temporary travel trailer skirting, too, but would have been ugly as sin. Just curious....

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

For those who camp in sub-freezing weather, has anyone tried adding temporary skirting around the base of their camper to entrap warmer air underneath to help protect water and sewer lines. If so, what material did you use and how much do you think it helped? Growing up in Colorado, we had long rolls of old Army surplus quonset hut quilted insulation that we used to insulate a lot of things. It would have worked for temporary travel trailer skirting, too, but would have been ugly as sin. Just curious....

Egraham used Reflectix around the trailer base in Whistler when it was set up as a ski getaway. Could have been applied in a more aesthetically pleasing manner in my opinion but would have required a lot more cutting. Function over form. His trailer is currently for sale.

In reality I don’t think it will stay much warmer than ambient underneath. There isn’t enough heat loss through the trailer floor and the 1 layer of Reflectix isn’t a very high R-value. You would probably need to think about a heat source of some kind to keep things from freezing.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...ate-14485.html

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

on my 21, if the kitchen sink water was routed around the back of the U dinette, the hot water line would be way long, so you'd waste that much more water each time you needed hot.

Here’s a grand mod idea: Do the long hot water run, but add a recirculation line, so you would have instant hot water. That could be fun. You might need a second pump just for that loop, but you could put it on a switch or timer so it wouldn’t just run all the time, same as a domestic hot water recirc setup.

We had such a setup installed when we repiped our whole house a few years back, and there was tremendous satisfaction with instant hot sink or shower taps, not to mention dramatically less water wasted than while waiting for a standard hot tap to heat up. The effect would be greatly reduced in a trailer, but it could be a fun challenge for those afflicted with the Tinker Bug.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

a setup installed when we repiped our whole house a few years back, and there was tremendous satisfaction with instant hot sink or shower taps, not to mention dramatically less water wasted than while waiting for a standard hot tap to heat up.

I'd be curious if the heat loss from the recirculating water was less than the wasted water used waiting for the hot to arrive. I guess if the pipes were super insulated they wouldn't act as a radiator giving off as much heat.

Try it and let us know.

Ron

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I'd be curious if the heat loss from the recirculating water was less than the wasted water used waiting for the hot to arrive. I guess if the pipes were super insulated they wouldn't act as a radiator giving off as much heat.



Try it and let us know.



Ron

Oh, I’m not going to bite this one off. I’m happy with our water lines that run fully within the shell of our 19, and the run is short enough that we don’t waste much waiting for hot water.

On our domestic setup all the hot lines were well insulated, otherwise I’d imagine we’d have lost a lot of energy through radiation from the pipes.