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02-09-2014, 09:33 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ, Arizona
Trailer: gone, 19 and 21 & 17B with 5.0 now. gone
Posts: 790
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ground fault plugs
On our 19 and also on the 21 the ground fault is the outside plug. All of the interiors are the same standard plug ins.
Jack
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02-09-2014, 10:44 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Longview, WA, Washington
Trailer: 2013 Escape 15B - 2014 Nissan Frontier SL
Posts: 854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azjack
On our 19 and also on the 21 the ground fault is the outside plug. All of the interiors are the same standard plug ins.
Jack
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The 15 has two because the run for plugs by the sink run down the driver side and behind the shower. A separate run goes along the back to reach the outside plug. The 19 and 21 must have a run that covers all the outlets which makes sense based on where the kitchen is.
__________________
Tim and Julie
2013 Escape 15B
2014 Nissan Frontier, Previous 2012 Santa Fe
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02-09-2014, 12:06 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
I'm not surprised at all. The old style are inexpensive and they work just fine.
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For sure they work fine, exactly the same, but for $0.60 more the upgrade is not that bad. Our electricians charge us the same either way. Just saying that more people prefer them from my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azjack
Maybe that plug is just 15 amps and that is the reason for the sticker on the plug that says for microwave only.
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I believe that the main reason for this is that other than a few exceptions, duplex receptacles are not allowed in cabinets, and it is to discourage using it to plug in other electronics. Built in appliances that come with heavy duty cords are an exception, like garburators, microwaves, etc, are allowed to be connected in cabinets. This is the case for houses, and I believe these codes carry on into trailers.
In our last trailer, there was a black cover on the outlet prewired for a future microwave, so nothing could be plugged into it.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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02-11-2014, 09:53 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ..., New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Esc19/'14 Silvrado
Posts: 4,193
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Just saying...
__________________
Myron
"A billion here, a billion there...add it all up and before you know it you're talking real money." Everett Dirkson
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02-11-2014, 07:20 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 743
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Myron,
They work fine if you're plugged into mains, or have an inverter, but I *always* need USB power and don't always have 120v. So I'll be building in some 12v-to-USB outlets.
__________________
Doug
2013 Escape 19 ("The Dog House") , 2018 Ford F150
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02-11-2014, 11:37 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 259
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The rating of the circuit is with the breaker, The micro-wave has twenty amp breaker, the rest are on fifteen amp breakers, the outlet will carry the load of either one
Doug
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02-11-2014, 11:54 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Escape
The rating of the circuit is with the breaker,
Doug
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It's been my understanding that the rating of the circuit is dependent on the guage of the wire used. A 20 amp circuit requires 12 ga. wiring. Using a 20 amp breaker doesn't make it a 20 amp circuit unless it also has the 12 ga. wires.
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02-12-2014, 12:01 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 259
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the wire is matched to the load of the breaker, both 15 and 20 can be wired with 14 gauge wire
Doug
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02-12-2014, 08:27 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ, Arizona
Trailer: gone, 19 and 21 & 17B with 5.0 now. gone
Posts: 790
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electric outlet with USB
Myron, will the pictured outlet allow me to plug any of my Apple items directly into the plug. My phone, wifes I-pad and my lap top all have different sizes of transformers and we don't interchange them?
Jack
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02-12-2014, 08:42 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Escape
the wire is matched to the load of the breaker, both 15 and 20 can be wired with 14 gauge wire
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Doug, are you sure? I thought 20A required 12ga wire...
__________________
Doug
2013 Escape 19 ("The Dog House") , 2018 Ford F150
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02-12-2014, 08:56 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ..., New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Esc19/'14 Silvrado
Posts: 4,193
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Jack to my knowledge if you're using shore power the answer is yes but if you are off the grid, using 12 volt battery power, you need an inverter. However it is wise to get that confirmed by someone less electrically challenged than ne.
__________________
Myron
"A billion here, a billion there...add it all up and before you know it you're talking real money." Everett Dirkson
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02-12-2014, 09:02 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azjack
Myron, will the pictured outlet allow me to plug any of my Apple items directly into the plug. My phone, wifes I-pad and my lap top all have different sizes of transformers and we don't interchange them?
Jack
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Jack - what I have read is that with USB charging, it is ok to plug a lower current draw device like the iPhone into a higher capacity transformer like the iPad's. The iPhone will still just draw current at its desired charge rate. But if you try the reverse i.e.to plug an iPad into an iPhone transformer (with less output capacity) it won't charge correctly. So, as long as the rated current maximum output of the outlet is as high or higher than the transformer that came with the device, you should be good to go. (At least according to what an electrical engineer explained)
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
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02-12-2014, 09:08 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronL
Jack to my knowledge if you're using shore power the answer is yes but if you are off the grid, using 12 volt battery power, you need an inverter. However it is wise to get that confirmed by someone less electrically challenged than ne.
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Myron, I think you are right, as there will be no power supplied to that outlet when using battery power unless you have a system wide inverter. I do all my DC device (iPhone, iPad, MacBook) charging with chargers that plug into the 12v outlets.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
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02-12-2014, 09:38 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azjack
Myron, will the pictured outlet allow me to plug any of my Apple items directly into the plug. My phone, wifes I-pad and my lap top all have different sizes of transformers and we don't interchange them?
Jack
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You should be able to plug any USB charger into these and they will function while on 120v. If on 12v then you use a simple 12v plug with USB, they work also even while plugged in. That is why everything in Blackjack is made to operate off 12v, it operates while plugged in or while on battery power.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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02-12-2014, 09:38 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Escape
the wire is matched to the load of the breaker, both 15 and 20 can be wired with 14 gauge wire
Doug
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This is absolutely not true. You MUST use 12g wire to be able to have a 20A circuit.
I install dozens of microwaves every year, and have yet to see one that required a 20A circuit. When built in, we do have to supply a dedicated 15A feed to it, something I thought Escape did with the M/W plug in their trailers.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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02-12-2014, 09:41 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey
Doug, are you sure? I thought 20A required 12ga wire...
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that is my thought also, if there is 20 amp circuit breaks and 15 amp wiring, the wiring may overheat if the draw is too great ad cause a fire. This is what happens in homes with heaters that draw more than the extension wire capacity, the wires melt and causes fires.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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02-12-2014, 10:16 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Auburn, Washington
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 #3
Posts: 385
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Remember the old saying; where it's only as good as the weakest link? Well in the case where the homeowner uses 14ga wire with a 20A breaker and outlet, the wire is the weakest link. The problem with electricity is that this setup can be very dangerous. As stated earlier, homes have burned down, with loss of life, by doing just that. Never replace a panel fuse or breaker with a larger one, and never replace a 15A outlet with a 20A model. Let's all be safe out there.
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02-12-2014, 11:07 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
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The confusion comes from the fact that the NEC allows you to put 15 amp receptacles on #12 wire protected by a 20 amp circuit breaker as long as there is more than one receptacle on the circuit. Going the other way (20 amp receptacles on a 15 amp breaker & #14 wire) is not allowed.
Back to the original point - Before installing permanent USB outlets, either 12V or 120V, check the current rating. Some devices, such as an Apple iPad or my WiFi Ranger router draw as much as 2 amps on the USB side. Many adapters & outlets are rated at less than this. I prefer to add standard 12V outlets & use plug in adapters rated to match the USB device current requirements. That provides more flexible connections.
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02-12-2014, 11:22 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Auburn, Washington
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 #3
Posts: 385
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Jon, I agree about the power requirement differences between all of our cool little electronic devices. I'm just hoping that the outlet I installed will do the trick and reduce the number of transformers I have to carry. The outlet indicated above, model # TR7745W-K-L, is a 15A outlet and provides 2.1A to the two USB ports. Other than plugging my tablet in to verify that it starts charging and that the indicator light works, I haven't used it yet. Here's hoping.
And you're right about the AC circuit you wrote about in the first of your post. The week link is the 15A outlet which limits the use of the circuit below it's capacity, thus keeping it safe. The problem arises when going the other way, running a 20A load using 15A wire.
Tom
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02-12-2014, 05:41 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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One more comment on the 15A/20A issue: if you put a single 15A outlet on a circuit with a 20A breaker and 12ga wiring, you have made the outlet the weak link... so you need the 20A outlet, too. I agree with Jim on the microwave requirements as well - it's hard to imagine a residential microwave oven needing more than 1800 watts for brief periods or 1500 watts for sustained periods, so they don't need a 20A circuit.
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