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Old 04-04-2017, 04:23 PM   #41
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He is in business to sell converters so I'm sure that's his sell today. He did push the PD six years ago when I bought one.
At least he knows his stuff, good guy to call when you need help.
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:34 PM   #42
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At least he knows his stuff, good guy to call when you need help.
He gave some good information on charging dual 6 volts and what it takes to get them fully charged. There are some charts at the bottom of the link I posted with the time it takes at different voltages. Those are for standard 12 volt batteries.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:19 PM   #43
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He's about $20 less than Amazon right now which is hard to do! Of course, no shipping on Amazon Prime so it may even out.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:25 PM   #44
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He's about $20 less than Amazon right now which is hard to do! Of course, no shipping on Amazon Prime so it may even out.
He says his kit is different because it includes the remote and not the fuse board but I did not check.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:29 PM   #45
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Looks like it might be the case Tom. Even with the shipping BestConverter is a better price and may be more recent product. Plus you got the experts.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:36 PM   #46
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I am also having trouble correlating a converter to flickering lights. Other than the charge being applied to the batteries, the lights will run of the batteries. What causes the flickering. This is something I have never noticed, but will watch closer in the future.
The thing is, even when you're boondocking, the electricity supplied to the trailer still runs through the power center. If the board is of lesser quality the lights can flicker. It's a relatively common problem, although my reason for an upgrade is the better charging profile.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:48 PM   #47
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The thing is, even when you're boondocking, the electricity supplied to the trailer still runs through the power center. If the board is of lesser quality the lights can flicker. It's a relatively common problem, although my reason for an upgrade is the better charging profile.
I always thought that the fused branch circuits came directly off a feed from the battery, and were placed in the converter for convenience. I did not realize the feed ran through the board on the converter. What is the purpose of this?
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Old 04-04-2017, 06:05 PM   #48
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There's no way I understand every bit of the wiring, but it's not just a converter, but a charger as well. A common fix for "flickering lights when boondocking" is to replace the converter/charger.


Again though, I think the far more valuable reason for the retrofit is to extend the life of the batteries by properly charging them.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:11 PM   #49
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The 12 volt circuits do come straight off the battery through the 12 volt board. The converter is also hooked the the same board and charges the battery through the board. The converter could affect lights and anything else when the camper is plugged into 120 volt. I don't think it could when not plugged in.

I am more concerned with properly recharging the dual 6 volt the batteries and being able to put a faster charge into them if necessary since I do not have on board solar.

I went ahead and ordered the Progressive Dynamics kit from Best Converter that Carl has already installed and seems happy with. I should have it in time to install this weekend. Time will tell.
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Old 04-05-2017, 09:32 AM   #50
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And it is my understanding that when on shore power, the converter is providing 12v to charge the battery/batteries and is providing power to the 12v buss. This can be demonstrated by flipping the battery disconnect switch when plugged into shore power; all 12v appliances, including lights, function. The only time that the batteries become the primary power source is when off grid. My understanding of converter function could, however, be incorrect.
This is a correct understanding. Most people hear "converter" and don't understand that it not only converts 120V AC to 12VDC to meet instantaneous demands of the trailer but it is also a battery charger. The converter 12V feed and batteries are in parallel as per the attached picture from the WFCO manual. If you are plugged in, you could flip the battery cutoff switch or even remove the batteries and all 12V appliances will still work.

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I always thought that the fused branch circuits came directly off a feed from the battery, and were placed in the converter for convenience. I did not realize the feed ran through the board on the converter. What is the purpose of this?
The DC board has the wiring feeds from both the batteries and the converter 12VDC output. When the trailer is plugged in to shore power or running on a generator the converter is providing voltage to all the interior 12 volt circuits, as well as, charging the battery. When the trailer is no longer plugged in the current is allowed to flow out of the batteries and feed the 12V circuits. I have a Doc Wattson battery monitor that measures what is leaving the batteries. When the trailer is plugged in the amps zero out on the screen indicating nothing is being used from the battery (although current is going in for charging). When the trailer is unplugged the amps required to run the appliances are indicated on the screen.

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The 12 volt circuits do come straight off the battery through the 12 volt board. The converter is also hooked to the same board and charges the battery through the board. The converter could affect lights and anything else when the camper is plugged into 120 volt. I don't think it could when not plugged in.
Correct. The converter/charger is only in play when the trailer is plugged in.
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:04 AM   #51
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The DC board has the wiring feeds from both the batteries and the converter 12VDC output. When the trailer is plugged in to shore power or running on a generator the converter is providing voltage to all the interior 12 volt circuits, as well as, charging the battery. When the trailer is no longer plugged in the current is allowed to flow out of the batteries and feed the 12V circuits. I have a Doc Wattson battery monitor that measures what is leaving the batteries. When the trailer is plugged in the amps zero out on the screen indicating nothing is being used from the battery (although current is going in for charging). When the trailer is unplugged the amps required to run the appliances are indicated on the screen.
I understand what you are saying here, but still wonder why the batteries don't share the load with the converter's charger. You are not likely to drain the battery.

In the Trillium I rebuilt for my daughter, which had no battery at all to begin with, it only drew 12V from the tow vehicle, I did add a battery and just use a small C-Tek charger to keep it charged. This charger is capable of equalizing (they call in recondition), and stays at a nice float charge when the trailer is not used. It is connected to the battery, which with the disconnect switch closed, is common with the distribution circuits.
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:52 AM   #52
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I understand what you are saying here, but still wonder why the batteries don't share the load with the converter's charger. You are not likely to drain the battery.
Jim, again I'm not a converter expert, but I believe currently manufactured converters "manage" power and cut power from the batteries into the 12v buss if incoming 120 ac power is "sensed." Once unplugged, the converted switches to the batteries. I believe it works somewhat like the refrigerator when set to auto; it selects the preferred power source. Again, that is my understanding, right or wrong.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:00 AM   #53
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Jim, again I'm not a converter expert, but I believe currently manufactured converters "manage" power and cut power from the batteries into the 12v buss if incoming 120 ac power is "sensed." Once unplugged, the converted switches to the batteries. I believe it works somewhat like the refrigerator when set to auto; it selects the preferred power source. Again, that is my understanding, right or wrong.
This is kinda what I was figuring given rubicon's post. I still wonder why why it disconnects the batteries when connected to 120V. What is it protecting?
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:57 AM   #54
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I understand what you are saying here, but still wonder why the batteries don't share the load with the converter's charger. You are not likely to drain the battery.

In the Trillium I rebuilt for my daughter, which had no battery at all to begin with, it only drew 12V from the tow vehicle, I did add a battery and just use a small C-Tek charger to keep it charged. This charger is capable of equalizing (they call in recondition), and stays at a nice float charge when the trailer is not used. It is connected to the battery, which with the disconnect switch closed, is common with the distribution circuits.
Jim: Not old enough to have seen all these designs and certainly no expert on this but some internet info shows many variations of converters/chargers and system wiring over the years. It appears that some early designs did share the load and even required a battery to be installed to buffer unstable voltages. Modern electronic circuitry has improved these devices to the point where they can power instantaneous loads and also charge the battery as needed simultaneously up to the output limits of the unit. It is a convenience to have clean filtered DC power in the proper voltage range available to trailer appliances even if you have a dead battery or need to remove it for some reason. The design of your daughters Trillium electrical system works well because you used a modern smart charger that provides reasonable voltages to the battery which also acts as a capacitor on the system. Say you had used an old single stage battery charger you would have to babysit it to make sure you didn't fry the batteries and it would also very likely provide unfiltered power at a voltage that is higher than the modern appliance circuit boards want to see.

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This is kinda what I was figuring given rubicon's post. I still wonder why why it disconnects the batteries when connected to 120V. What is it protecting?
I'm not sure it is disconnecting in the traditional sense. The DC board electronics are deciding where to send power when plugged in. I'm guessing the design incorporates diodes that do not allow the battery to power the on board loads when the converter is plugged into shore power.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:07 PM   #55
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This is kinda what I was figuring given rubicon's post. I still wonder why why it disconnects the batteries when connected to 120V. What is it protecting?
I would guess that its electronic "brain" knows that it's job is to charge the batteries and keep them charged. As a result, when 120vac is available, it is probably designed to use 120vac as the preferred power source for any power demand, ac or dc.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:07 PM   #56
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Sorry. Deleted. Accidental double post.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:31 PM   #57
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Do I look smarter? I think I am slowly getting there. Thanks for the input, guys.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:50 PM   #58
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I would guess that its electronic "brain" knows that it's job is to charg hie the batteries and keep them charged. As a result, when 120vac is available, it is probably designed to use 120vac as the preferred power source for any power demand, ac or dc.
I don't believe the converter uses the 120 volt as the "preferred" power source or switches the battery out of the system. It controls the common buss voltage by raising it above the battery voltage. When it does power flows to the trailer loads and to the battery to charge it. The fully charged battery is at most 12.7 volts. The converter rises the voltage to 13.2 volts or more causing charge to flow back to the battery. It's kind of like a well pump putting water into the pressure tank when it's running as well as sending water to the house.

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Old 04-05-2017, 12:55 PM   #59
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See page 4: https://www.rexandsonsrvs.com/manual...ter_Manual.pdf

The battery (in/out) and converter (output) are tied together on the DC power distribution boards at the NEG- and POS+ buss bars. When the converter is on, it supplies more volts (13.6) than the battery so a battery monitor will show no output (since there is none from the battery.)

EDIT: Like skiman said.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:41 PM   #60
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It appears that some early designs did share the load and even required a battery to be installed to buffer unstable voltages. Modern electronic circuitry has improved these devices to the point where they can power instantaneous loads and also charge the battery as needed simultaneously up to the output limits of the unit.
Yes, the WFCO 8955 can supply up to 55 amps while maintaining an output voltage higher than the battery voltage.

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I don't believe the converter uses the 120 volt as the "preferred" power source or switches the battery out of the system. It controls the common buss voltage by raising it above the battery voltage. When it does power flows to the trailer loads and to the battery to charge it. The fully charged battery is at most 12.7 volts. The converter rises the voltage to 13.2 volts or more causing charge to flow back to the battery. It's kind of like a well pump putting water into the pressure tank when it's running as well as sending water to the house.
Exactly!

There is no switching, and there are no diodes to control where power comes from. The converter's output is higher than the internal voltage of the battery, so it all comes from the converter.

My old Boler does physically switch (with a relay) the battery off when the converter is on. It is a completely obsolete four decade old design.
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