Boondocker Retrofit for WFCO converter

[Mike Lewis]

This is interesting. My propane alarm started going off for no apparent reason while I was on a trip last fall. My trailer's two 6-volt batteries are stored internally, and I wondered if hydrogen venting from the batteries might be causing the alarm to sound. The alarm did the same thing on another trip in February, so I replaced it. Since then I haven't heard the new one go off. I've been told that propane alarms wear out, can be triggered by dust, etc.

I spend at least half of my travel time boondocking, I have solar panels, and I don't have a generator. I intend to replace my batteries with AGMs when the time comes. How do I know when it's time?

[Kountrykamper]

What I read is the boondocker is a quick swap with just 5 wires and the progressive dynamics requires the board to be changed also.

If I remember correctly it was the progressive dynamics I installed in our Casita about 6 years ago because I remember replacing the board and being able to manually override the charge rate. Changing the board was not a big deal from what I remember but I would rather not deal with it if it's not needed and the boondocker would be able to give a fast recharge.

Thoughts?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Kountrykamper

What I read is the boondocker is a quick swap with just 5 wires and the progressive dynamics requires the board to be changed also.

If I remember correctly it was the progressive dynamics I installed in our Casita about 6 years ago because I remember replacing the board and being able to manually override the charge rate. Changing the board was not a big deal from what I remember but I would rather not deal with it if it's not needed and the boondocker would be able to give a fast recharge.

Thoughts?

Carl installed the PD unit and mentioned it was an easy 40 minute job. Haven't seen what's involved personally.

[Kountrykamper]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Carl installed the PD unit and mentioned it was an easy 40 minute job. Haven't seen what's involved personally.

Did you install the boondocker? If so how do you like it?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Kountrykamper

Did you install the boondocker? If so how do you like it?

As I mentioned above, I haven't gotten to it yet.

[Kountrykamper]

Missed that post. Thanks

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Kountrykamper

If I remember correctly it was the progressive dynamics I installed in our Casita about 6 years ago because I remember replacing the board and being able to manually override the charge rate. Changing the board was not a big deal from what I remember but I would rather not deal with it if it's not needed and the boondocker would be able to give a fast recharge.Thoughts?

This assumes the Boondocker is better than the WFCO at leaving the float mode automatically. Maybe it is, but you are still at the mercy of the charging algorithms and how the unit reacts. I would tend to think that one of the major benefits to a swap like this would be to add the functionality to manually select the charge mode. If recharging from a generator you can ensure you are in boost mode to minimize generator runtime. For me, this function on the PD unit alone differentiates it enough from the WFCO and Boondocker to make this swap compelling. As others have said if you have solar and/or never require a quick recharge from a generator or quick campground stop then I don't see much of a reason to replace the WFCO until it dies.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Carl installed the PD unit and mentioned it was an easy 40 minute job. Haven't seen what's involved personally.

Pages 6-7 of the PDF provide a good overview. Seems straightforward.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/4...tion_guide.pdf

[rbryan4]

Dave, I see three benefits in retrofitting the wfco with either the Boondocker board or the PD. First, true 4 stage charging including a desulfation cycle, second, a charging voltage that is more in line with Interstate's recommendations, and third, cleaner power, so no more flickering lights. A cursory search on Google about the wfco will show that the flickering is a common issue. Yes, sometimes flickering can be caused by a poorly seated LED bulb, but when all the lights flicker, that speaks to the converter directly.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

This is interesting. My propane alarm started going off for no apparent reason while I was on a trip last fall. My trailer's two 6-volt batteries are stored internally, and I wondered if hydrogen venting from the batteries might be causing the alarm to sound. The alarm did the same thing on another trip in February, so I replaced it. Since then I haven't heard the new one go off. I've been told that propane alarms wear out, can be triggered by dust, etc.

I spend at least half of my travel time boondocking, I have solar panels, and I don't have a generator. I intend to replace my batteries with AGMs when the time comes. How do I know when it's time?

Mike,
Just so you know, my propane alarm started going off about 9 months after I took delivery. ETI had me contact the manufacturer who arranged for me to get a new one at an RV dealer where I was at the time. The replacement started doing the same thing after 6 months. I don't think it was related to the age of the alarm. On my 5.0TA, the alarm is in the dinette bench wall, passenger side. The battery box is perhaps 3 feet away. If I placed a small fan in the storage compartment and opened the hatch (optional hatch) and aired it out after a false alarm, it would then go at best a couple of days before it would start sounding. I know of another 5.0TA owner an hour away from me who just started having the same problem, and he took delivery last May. I am convinced the alarms are OK and it is battery outgassing which is the problem. I now do not believe my first alarm really needed to be exchanged.

[skiman]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

This assumes the Boondocker is better than the WFCO at leaving the float mode automatically. Maybe it is, but you are still at the mercy of the charging algorithms and how the unit reacts. I would tend to think that one of the major benefits to a swap like this would be to add the functionality to manually select the charge mode. If recharging from a generator you can ensure you are in boost mode to minimize generator runtime. For me, this function on the PD unit alone differentiates it enough from the WFCO and Boondocker to make this swap compelling. As others have said if you have solar and/or never require a quick recharge from a generator or quick campground stop then I don't see much of a reason to replace the WFCO until it dies.



Pages 6-7 of the PDF provide a good overview. Seems straightforward.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/4...tion_guide.pdf

Found this on YouTube showing refit of a WFCO with a PD.

https://youtu.be/DKZ9KSX1rno

[Jim Bennett]

Still trying to fully understand the need for the upgrade, or if it would actually benefit me at all.

I have AGM batteries, so don't really need the fourth stage of charging, which is equalization, correct?

I never plan to use a gen set, at least I will not carry one. For boondocking I will just rely on a good inverter and up to 320W of solar power, though I do realize with 240W fixed on the roof it will likely never see the full capacity. It seems the bulk charge being one of the biggest reasons to go with this upgrade is mostly touted to be most beneficial with a gen set to minimize run time. When connected to the grid, bulk mode would not be as beneficial, as I have lots of time to fully charge, and as long as I hit full charge it is not a big deal.

I am also having trouble correlating a converter to flickering lights. Other than the charge being applied to the batteries, the lights will run of the batteries. What causes the flickering. This is something I have never noticed, but will watch closer in the future.

Anyway, just a few musings from me as I try to fully wrap my head around this upgraded charger.

[Kountrykamper]

The only reason I would want to do this it is to hook a generator up if needed for a shorter time. We only have 120 watts of portable solar so being able to run a generator for a couple hours with the converter in boost mode would give us 90% battery.

The WFCO never goes into boost mode from what I have have seen so charge times are a lot longer at 13.6 volts vs 14.6 volts.

What I am not sold on is the board change on the PD to a proprietary board. The PD is what I installed in our Casita and the first one went bad after around 9 months just before a trip. I had to send it back for replacement which meant I had to install the WFCO again so we could go on the trip. It required me to change the board again too. When I received the replacement PD back I never installed it back into the Casita and gave it away when I sold it. The Boondocker would not require a board replacement and if there was ever a problem I could reinstall the WFCO in a couple minuets.

The question I have is will the Boondocker go into boost mode more often that the WFCO. I really don't care about the 4 stage desulfation mode as I don't leave the convertor plugged in all the time anyway.

Maybe I should just carry my C Tek charger if I ever need a quick charge.

I have left 2 messages at Best Converter but have not received a call back yet.

[C&G in FL]

My Lifeline AGM batteries came with instructions that state that under certain circumstances, equalization should be carried out, and they recommend 8 hours at 15.5 volts.

Perhaps flickering was the wrong term to use. Perhaps I should have said constant brightness. And it is my understanding that when on shore power, the converter is providing 12v to charge the battery/batteries and is providing power to the 12v buss. This can be demonstrated by flipping the battery disconnect switch when plugged into shore power; all 12v appliances, including lights, function. The only time that the batteries become the primary power source is when off grid. My understanding of converter function could, however, be incorrect. With the PD replacement, I (maybe not everyone) note constant lumen output that the WFCO did not always supply.

[Jim Bennett]

I was told by the supplier of my AGM batteries to never do an equalization charge, and if kept properly charged there would be no reason to do so. I believe that they should have a 14.4V charge, and 13.8V float at room temp. Having the solar on 24/7 should keep them floating nice, other than under heavy usage.

Seems to be varying info on AGMs (not unlike many other things) out there.

[Kountrykamper]

Carl sent me a PM and said his Progressive Dynamics is a new style and did not require the 12 fuse board to be replaced like they did in the past. That would do exactly what I am looking to do. Be able to control the charge rate if desired. I will verify with Best Converter when they call back.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Dave, I see three benefits in retrofitting the wfco with either the Boondocker board or the PD. First, true 4 stage charging including a desulfation cycle, second, a charging voltage that is more in line with Interstate's recommendations, and third, cleaner power, so no more flickering lights. A cursory search on Google about the wfco will show that the flickering is a common issue. Yes, sometimes flickering can be caused by a poorly seated LED bulb, but when all the lights flicker, that speaks to the converter directly.

Now let me preface this that I'm by no means an expert and I know that this all gets quickly academic. This is coming from the perspective of no solar and wanting to use a generator to more quickly charge flooded cell batteries, as well as, maximize the life of the batteries...and not cause other problems.

"First, true 4 stage charging including a desulfation cycle"
Agree, in theory it should be better, especially if the WFCO never wants to leave the float/absorption modes. Instead of charging at 14.4V you are stuck with 13.6V with the WFCO. A caution on the desulfation cycle - the Boondocker doesn't list what equalization voltage is used and Prog Dynamics lists 14.4V which is the same as the boost voltage. I'm not sure you would actually be mixing up the electrolyte in the equalization mode any more than you do when you are in the bulk (boost) charging mode with these converters. Interstate lists 15.6V for equalization of the GC2's. The only way to get anywhere near that is with the Xantrex TrueCharge2 at 16V but I don't think it is a good idea to put that much voltage on the system unless they were disconnected from the trailer appliances. The one person I know who installed the Xantrex is paired with AGM's so no need to worry about equalization.

"second, a charging voltage that is more in line with Interstate's recommendations"
I just don't see this. See the attached chart I put together. The only charging profile that seems to get close to the actual specs of Interstate GC2's is the Xantrex TrueCharge2. Flooded setting pretty close, lead-calcium setting even better? All the others are very similar to the stock WFCO. The Boondocker and PD units may indeed work better, but that would only be because of an WFCO working improperly compared to its specs. My bet is we start to quickly see diminishing returns on our efforts to get perfect battery charging. For most people the WFCO and certainly the Boondocker and PD units if so inclined will do just fine. Most of us are fine with a battery charged to 80%-90%. If you have solar this is even less of a concern. Additionally, when are the higher voltages in an RV application (not golf cart) too much? The converter is wired direct to the 12V appliances when on shore power. For example, I know the furnace states max 13.6V or unbalanced combustion and excessive fan wear can result.

"and third, cleaner power, so no more flickering lights"
Haven't seen this myself with an almost 8 year old WFCO. My bet is this is happening if the converter is actually going bad and maybe quickly switching between modes which would apply varying voltages to the system. Just a theory. When the trailer is plugged in to shore power the converter is supplying "12 volts" to the appliances directly and charging the battery so any variations in the system voltage via the converter will certainly affect the lights.

[Kountrykamper]

Randy from Best Converter just called back and explained the difference in the Boondocker and Progressive Dynamics. He says the PD is made in the USA and you get what you pay for. It no longer requires that the fuse board be replaced because it comes with a remote that will let you override it to any charge cycle you want. If you put it in the boost mode it will stay there for 4 hours. He says the automatic algorithms are better than the Boondocker and most of the time it will not need to be touched unless you just want to charge with a generator in boost for a few hours and then it will probably go into the boost mode on its own. He also said he feels it is the best converter to use with dual 6 volt battery applications. He said he sells convertors but does not have anything good to say about the WFCO.

This is the kit he suggested to replace the WFCO 8955
http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4655M...l#.WOPVxaK1tPY

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

...
I have AGM batteries, so don't really need the fourth stage of charging, which is equalization, correct?
...

The manufacture of my AGMs says to not do an equalization charge. I was able to set the Escape provided charger to "no equalization" mode.

Apparently a few AGMs do come with instructions to do an equalization. It doesn't make sense with what I know about AGMs but I would not argue, and would be in a weak position if need warranty service.

--
Alan

[padlin]

Originally Posted by Kountrykamper

He said he sells convertors but does not have anything good to say about the WFCO.

That was not what he said when he sold me a WFCO to replace a bad Elixer 10 years ago. Of course there was no Boondocker at the time much less the PD.

[Kountrykamper]

Originally Posted by padlin

That was not what he said when he sold me a WFCO to replace a bad Elixer 10 years ago. Of course there was no Boondocker at the time much less the PD.

He is in business to sell converters so I'm sure that's his sell today. He did push the PD six years ago when I bought one.