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Old 11-01-2019, 07:14 PM   #1
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Built-in electric heat

We don't have an A/C and therefore don't have a heat strip so we've always just used a cube heater for those occasional times when it was cold and we had a hookup.

I used a separate portable thermostat for the cube heater but the wires were on the floor and it required setting up etc. so it wasn't ideal.

So I've installed a built-in unit. I ordered my trailer without the end of bed cupboard door installed because I thought the I might install the heater there, blowing straight down the length of the trailer. But that would have given up the opportunity to have a pull out drawer there and I found a unit that would fit on the angled end. It essentially doesn't take away any significant space.

I thought that I'd have to modify the louvers on the grill as it looked like it would put most of the heat towards the door. I was happy to find that they actually send most of the heated air along the front of the kitchen counter toward the dinette, which was the goal. I confirmed the air flow with a bunch of strips of paper towel blowing in the breeze. The results were pretty clear.

Thermostat placement was tricky with limited options. By typical installation parameters it's too close and too low. But I used my portable thermostat to test this location beforehand and was happy that it worked just fine. The warm air going mostly closer to the kitchen counter probably prevents it from short cycling.

And for those of you who have a passing knowledge of wiring and codes, yes, I know several things still have to be done to secure and protect the wiring.

Ron
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:09 PM   #2
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The followup questions (of course):
Mfr, Model, Wattage, Voltage?
Thanks.
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:27 PM   #3
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The followup questions (of course):
Mfr, Model, Wattage, Voltage?
Thanks.
This looks like the King PAW heater with the K101 thermostat. My bet is Ron painted the grille to his liking to match the propane furnace. You can wire it up for different wattages. 250W to 1500W in 250W increments which is pretty neat. The voltage should be 120V to match the trailer.

https://www.amazon.com/King-Electric.../dp/B000PS9NY6
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:23 PM   #4
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Boy, no keeping secrets from you. Right on all counts.

It is the King Model PAW 1215. Whisper quiet.

I've got it set for 1250 watts. Thought that I'd leave a little bit for other usage for those times when we're only on a single 15 amp circuit.

Leaving it white wasn't really an option. Too much of a clash with furnace grill etc. I was hoping that the white finish wasn't too hard to scuff to give the black paint better adhesion. No problem.

Ron
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Old 11-02-2019, 02:48 AM   #5
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Ron, how did you like working with those new fangled electrical outlets? I have installed something similar in my first 3 Escapes, 2 under the dinette seat in the E10 and one under the bed in my E21, but I installed it facing the cubbies was I wanted the heat to go into the bath area also. Some units also had the ability to switch from high to low heat, 750/1500 watts or just the single stage. Right now we are using a 500 watt plug in unit to supplement the furnace. My list is growing.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:02 AM   #6
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I haven't had to deal with them yet. I bought a new circuit breaker and ran a dedicated line to the heater.

Ron
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:55 AM   #7
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Boy, no keeping secrets from you. Right on all counts.

It is the King Model PAW 1215. Whisper quiet.

I've got it set for 1250 watts. Thought that I'd leave a little bit for other usage for those times when we're only on a single 15 amp circuit.

Leaving it white wasn't really an option. Too much of a clash with furnace grill etc. I was hoping that the white finish wasn't too hard to scuff to give the black paint better adhesion. No problem.

Ron
I have the exact heater installed in my 2012 5.0 SA set at 1250 watts using the same analogy as you re: the 15 amp service. Reace rough wired it and cut and finished the opening for me and I installed the heater and connected the wiring after I took delivery. I put the thermostat up in the bed area, handy for turning it up in the morning, and the heater in the kitchen area. I've found when camping in cold weather (minus 10 at night on our last trip in Sept/Oct) that the heater struggles to keep up and I sometimes have to top up with the propane furnace. On that trip the heater would run non stop all night to keep the trailer at 12 to 15 degrees C and I have dual pane windows, the extra insulation package and spray foam. In regular weather generally above zero it works brilliantly. You need to put some lock tight or a lock washer on the screw that holds the squirrel cage fan and heater assembly as the vibrations from travel loosen it and the whole thing drops out into the casing. That makes a real racket especially when it happens halfway through the night!
Barry
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:30 AM   #8
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Looks good Ron. It was the first thing I did after getting my trailer so I could easily keep it warm while working without swapping out propane bottles, after all it was the middle of winter.

I do find it handy when I have hookups and need heat, but that does not seem to happen too much anymore.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:57 AM   #9
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Very nice work, Ron. We’d like to add something similar before hitting FT, just not sure where yet in the 19. May just stay with a portable unit.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:23 PM   #10
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Very nice work, Ron. We’d like to add something similar before hitting FT, just not sure where yet in the 19. May just stay with a portable unit.
How about under the existing furnace like this?
Elec heater.jpg
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:28 PM   #11
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Very nice, Don. I had been eyeing that location and seeing yours it makes sense there and looks good.
A small wall mount electric fireplace might go right in that spot as well.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by barry View Post
I've found when camping in cold weather (minus 10 at night on our last trip in Sept/Oct) that the heater struggles to keep up and I sometimes have to top up with the propane furnace.

Yes, hard to escape the laws of thermodynamics, 1250 watts only goes so far. If the heater does most of the heating in extreme conditions, then I'm happy.

You need to put some lock tight or a lock washer on the screw that holds the squirrel cage fan and heater assembly as the vibrations from travel loosen it and the whole thing drops out into the casing.
Barry
Yup, opened it up, saw the one screw mounting and said this isn't going to cut it. Added "L" brackets to the other side and used machine screws, with rubber pads, to attach it. Whisper quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonF View Post
How about under the existing furnace like this?
Attachment 43085
That location is tempting but I wanted as much fore and aft air movement as possible. That's the thing that I don't like about the propane furnace, blowing straight out towards the counter front.

Ron
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Old 11-02-2019, 03:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonF View Post
How about under the existing furnace like this?
Attachment 43085
We made a little extra cabinet in that space as others have . Just use a portable little heater . Good idea though if you don’t need the extra cabinetry . Pat
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Old 11-02-2019, 03:27 PM   #14
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Very nice work, Ron. We’d like to add something similar before hitting FT, just not sure where yet in the 19. May just stay with a portable unit.
Hi Greg , perfect space for extra cabinet . We just use the portable . Hope to make Quartzite again . Pat
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Old 11-02-2019, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
We don't have an A/C and therefore don't have a heat strip so we've always just used a cube heater for those occasional times when it was cold and we had a hookup.

I used a separate portable thermostat for the cube heater but the wires were on the floor and it required setting up etc. so it wasn't ideal.

So I've installed a built-in unit. I ordered my trailer without the end of bed cupboard door installed because I thought the I might install the heater there, blowing straight down the length of the trailer. But that would have given up the opportunity to have a pull out drawer there and I found a unit that would fit on the angled end. It essentially doesn't take away any significant space.

I thought that I'd have to modify the louvers on the grill as it looked like it would put most of the heat towards the door. I was happy to find that they actually send most of the heated air along the front of the kitchen counter toward the dinette, which was the goal. I confirmed the air flow with a bunch of strips of paper towel blowing in the breeze. The results were pretty clear.

Thermostat placement was tricky with limited options. By typical installation parameters it's too close and too low. But I used my portable thermostat to test this location beforehand and was happy that it worked just fine. The warm air going mostly closer to the kitchen counter probably prevents it from short cycling.

And for those of you who have a passing knowledge of wiring and codes, yes, I know several things still have to be done to secure and protect the wiring.

Ron
Nice install Ron ! You sure are busy redesigning your trailer ! Pat
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
Yup, opened it up, saw the one screw mounting and said this isn't going to cut it. Added "L" brackets to the other side and used machine screws, with rubber pads, to attach it. Whisper quiet.
That sounds like an excellent idea, every so often mine starts to "buzz" a bit and needs a bang on the grill to silence it. Would love to see an image of that part of the install if you have time.

Thanks,
Barry
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Old 11-03-2019, 12:58 PM   #17
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Nice install Ron ! You sure are busy redesigning your trailer ! Pat
Yes, and I'm just warming up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
That sounds like an excellent idea, every so often mine starts to "buzz" a bit and needs a bang on the grill to silence it. Would love to see an image of that part of the install if you have time.

Thanks,
Barry
There you go.

Ron
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:05 PM   #18
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Yes, and I'm just warming up.



There you go.

Ron
Those squirrel cages sure work nice even in our stove vents too (Sam 1 stove vent ) they really move the air ! Pat
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:45 PM   #19
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Yes they do and did I mention how quiet they are.

Ron
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
I have the exact heater installed in my 2012 5.0 SA set at 1250 watts using the same analogy as you re: the 15 amp service. Reace rough wired it and cut and finished the opening for me and I installed the heater and connected the wiring after I took delivery. I put the thermostat up in the bed area, handy for turning it up in the morning, and the heater in the kitchen area. I've found when camping in cold weather (minus 10 at night on our last trip in Sept/Oct) that the heater struggles to keep up and I sometimes have to top up with the propane furnace. On that trip the heater would run non stop all night to keep the trailer at 12 to 15 degrees C and I have dual pane windows, the extra insulation package and spray foam. In regular weather generally above zero it works brilliantly. You need to put some lock tight or a lock washer on the screw that holds the squirrel cage fan and heater assembly as the vibrations from travel loosen it and the whole thing drops out into the casing. That makes a real racket especially when it happens halfway through the night!
Barry

1500 watt is about 5000 BTU!!!! Normal if struggling. Better electric than propane specially if free!
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