Built in Electric Heater

[Jim Bennett]

The King PAW Series is another good contender, and one that I had looked at for the 19, but never did anything about because to date I rarely have 120V available for use.

The dimensions are good, and two things I like about it are the 6 wattage settings, and the fact it has a squirrel cage fan, which are used in most home furnaces do to how they quietly move air. Plus, I can use the digital wall thermostat with it.

http://king-electric.com/pdfs/PAW_WEB.pdf

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Where it's located matters to me. I don't want to need to get out of bed and wander to the other end of the trailer to turn the furnace up/on.

You don't want to bend over close to floor level to try to read and set a dial? Yeah, me neither. Being near the bed is probably best, but for me, just so long as it is easy to access and set, that is what matters.

Putting a digital thermostat in my 19 was one of the best things I did.

[Jim Bennett]

More looking has turned up a couple other options.

King also sells a toekick heater, one that can be placed down at floor level, which might be a good option for being out of the way. It is deeper than most others though which would be a consideration. It to uses a separate thermostat. It is the Model KT.


King Electric :: Products

Another company I came across is Cadet, that has a couple interesting offerings.
Electric Wall Heaters | Cadet Heat

They have a model called the Apex72, which mounts at least 72" off the floor, so if there was an unused spot in the cabinetry at least that high, it would work, and it is a small unit.


Another one of theirs of interest is the Energy Plus, which has digital controls on the unit, and lots of nice features, as well as a small form factor.


They also have one that looks fantastic, the RBF, which has a nice looking grill, uses a separate thermostat, but has a fairly large grill at 12W x 19H.

[steve dunham]

I have installed many tow space / kick space electric heaters.
The heaters in most cases have a squirrel cage fan and are relatively guiet
plus even when mounted at floor level do not cause heat damage to the flooring.
Berko makes a good heater and they are better guality than the Cadet.
(Refer to the safety recalls on many Cadet heaters.
Toe space heaters can be wired to produce different wattage outputs
from 500 watts to 2000 watts.
The tow space heaters can be controlled by a built in Tstat or a line or low voltage
wall mounted Tstat.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I have installed many tow space / kick space electric heaters.
The heaters in most cases have a squirrel cage fan and are relatively guiet
plus even when mounted at floor level do not cause heat damage to the flooring.
Berko makes a good heater and they are better guality than the Cadet.
(Refer to the safety recalls on many Cadet heaters.
Toe space heaters can be wired to produce different wattage outputs
from 500 watts to 2000 watts.
The tow space heaters can be controlled by a built in Tstat or a line or low voltage
wall mounted Tstat.

Do you have a link to any specific Berko heater you have used, or like?

[cpaharley2008]

The Eggcamper uses the Cadet heater.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Do you have a link to any specific Berko heater you have used, or like?

Jim ,I do not have a link .I always bought the electic heaters from an Electrical supply house.
If I remember correctly Berko was bought out by Marley. I installed 4 Cadet heaters in my
cabin mainly because they were CHEAP. Within one year 3 of the 4 heaters failed (2 high limits
and one built in tstat) Cadet would not replace the defective parts until the government forced a recall. I was forced to purchase the parts out of pocket .Luckily my plumbing did not freeze when the heaters failed . We never had callback or warranty issues with Berko. Berko was more expensive up front but cheaper in the long run.
Low end heaters offten use exposed element similar to a toaster where the better heaters use an enclosed element with fins. The enclosed elements hold up to vibration better and operate at a lower temperature range so they last longer. This is the reason baseboard electric heaters have a lifetime warranty and fan forced heaters have as little as a one year warranty
The above is my observations based on 40+ years as an electrician and teaching classes in Electric heating.

[Jim Bennett]

Your rational in quality and longevity make good sense, Steve.

In searching Marley heaters, it seems their name is used in conjunction with Qmark. Their price is in line with the King Heater.
Commercial & Residential Heaters & Ventilation Systems | QMark

Not certain it will work for sure, but I am liking the idea of a toe space heater, more and more.
QTS - Toe Space Fan-Forced Heaters | Qmark | Product Detail

[Jim Bennett]

For those of you that have the built in electric heaters, what wattage do you think would be required for temps around freezing? I know the ideal heater runs 24/7 on the coldest day you would experience and just keep up.

I ask because I am quite keen right now on using a toe kick heater, probably placed in the steps to the loft, and there are a couple good ones that are smaller and light, but only put out 1000W. There are some at up to 1800W, but some of these are much larger.

Many have two or more wattages to choose from, but most require moving jumpers in the heater itself, not real tough, but not something to be done real quick either.

[gabeck]

Our little electric heater puts 1000.......we have been out in -4-5 over night - but have never run it non stop ( gets too warm ) ...... it has an almost zero clearance ( 3-4inches from the flour ) . If we were ever inclined to up-size we'd put in one at each end - but really we will never up-size .......

[escape artist]

Hi: Jim Bennett... We use a small stand alone heater and have almost never run it on hi heat as it also gets too hot!!! Don't forget heat rises so the loft gets warm fast!!!BTW got the "Stripper pole" covered in white vinyl to match the sink/stove top so we really won't need any more heat!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Jim Bennett]

Right now we use a small 1500W cube heater. It did fine keeping our 19 warm, though we really never got to use it very often. We usually had to set it up on the counter, to give Jasper free reign on the floor.

It would be nice to permanently mount one into cabinet space not used, as I do plan on using up as much as possible.

For the 5.0TA, I was thinking of putting a toe kick (tow space) heater either at floor level on the cabinetry somewhere, or on the bottom step to the loft if there is room. I think the latter would be best, but most need a 6" clearance on the sides (nothing above or below).

[Jim Bennett]

And Alf, I would thank you to quit trying to implant the image of you and your stripper pole in me wee brain.

[Brian B-P]

Long ago some of the more expensive portable "cube" heaters continuously varied the heat output (and fan speed), rather than cycling on and off. The full heater output can then be as large as permissible by the supply circuit (1500 watts assuming a 15A circuit), without annoying cycling in conditions of lower demand. This would be ideal, but I haven't even seen it in a portable heater recently, let alone a built-in... maybe continuously variable heat output is a feature to search for?

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

And Alf, I would thank you to quit trying to implant the image of you and your stripper pole in me wee brain.

Hi: Jim Bennett... You'll have your own... soon enough!!!Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: Jim Bennett... You'll have your own... soon enough!!!Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

I'll send you a photo when I do.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Long ago some of the more expensive portable "cube" heaters continuously varied the heat output (and fan speed), rather than cycling on and off. The full heater output can then be as large as permissible by the supply circuit (1500 watts assuming a 15A circuit), without annoying cycling in conditions of lower demand. This would be ideal, but I haven't even seen it in a portable heater recently, let alone a built-in... maybe continuously variable heat output is a feature to search for?

While I've been told the quality of the newer Pelonis Classic Disk Heaters is not as good as the older models, the ads state they function the same way - vary the heat output & fan speed to keep the temperature of your trailer at what ever you set it at.

I'm not giving up my 1986 Pelonis Disk Furnace to find out - it keeps the trailer temperature within 1-2 degrees off the set temperature with outside temperature swings between 50°F and 20°F. When running at its slowest speed (most of the time) you can barely hear it.

[Jim Bennett]

I have seen nothing for variable output, other than some with dual settings, with one setting usually half of the full setting , as they just use two heat elements the same size to achieve this. King heaters use four 375W elements, for a total of 1500W. Dimplex (available in town at the BORG) uses four 450W elements, for a total of 1800W, which is the max you can do on a 120V 15A circuit.

I have seen nothing for the built-ins that offer variable speed fans, though most are extremely quiet, and you want as good of distribution through airflow that you can get.

[BCnomad]

My two cents Jim is to not shy away from wattage. I have had two space heaters running when my furnace packed it in.

Coastal winds / (at/near) freezing temps / slightly open ventilation window / trying to keep trailer hotter than you and Lisa ever would / noise can be contained away from bed area are all my thoughts. I can't speak to Alf's thought on the TA's loft area trapping heat, but I can tell you my 21 seems "drafty" with a wind blowing. My 21 bed's pillow area never seemed to benefit from the heat -- having short short hair might be a factor in that opinion though! Perhaps having the maxx fan in ceiling fan mode would have helped.


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Its great you're going through this Jim. I'll borrow mod ideas liberally when/if a TA is on my own wishlist! Hadn't heard of tow heaters before....

[Jim Bennett]

One other thing I will be doing to aid in even heating/cooling throughout the trailer, is to use one or two mounted 12V marine fans to circulate air into the loft. I have had messages from a few people saying this is a great idea, and a couple who say it is not needed. I think it might be nice to move air around a bit, it will help with minimize the cycling of the heater(s)/air conditioning.