Custom Air Conditioning Retrofit

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by LJY

Was removing the AC hard to do? I'm thinking to remove it and replace with another fan or vent

LJY: I would say it is not that hard to do for the average person. The unit weighs 100 lbs so it needs to be lifted off the roof or slid down a ladder by two strong people. Maybe you saw this post? Has a couple of pictures that may help.

www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8/custom-air-conditioning-retrofit-8249-22.html#post183339

We replaced with a non-powered Fantastic vent (and obviously the mini-split A/C), but bear in mind that is you want a 12V powered vent you will need to fish wire to that location. When you remove the A/C you will be left with only 120V power at that location. I'm not sure if there is any way to leverage the wiring that comes up for the thermostat on a newer unit? Our older A/C had controls on the unit itself only.

[Eggscape]

Personally I would not have any problem in using the wire to power a 12 volt fan that is normally there to power the AC via 120 volts. It is way over rated for that fan. Just make sure that you disconnect it from the 120 volt side of the power panel first and hook it up to the 12 volt side with the size fuse recommended by the manufacturer of the fan after it is installed.

[LJY]

Originally Posted by BCnomad

Here's the reverse procedure that Myron did for some ideas.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...self-5733.html

Thanks! will read all about it

[LJY]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

LJY: I would say it is not that hard to do for the average person. The unit weighs 100 lbs so it needs to be lifted off the roof or slid down a ladder by two strong people. Maybe you saw this post? Has a couple of pictures that may help.

www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8/custom-air-conditioning-retrofit-8249-22.html#post183339

We replaced with a non-powered Fantastic vent (and obviously the mini-split A/C), but bear in mind that is you want a 12V powered vent you will need to fish wire to that location. When you remove the A/C you will be left with only 120V power at that location. I'm not sure if there is any way to leverage the wiring that comes up for the thermostat on a newer unit? Our older A/C had controls on the unit itself only.

Thanks, btw, great work..
I find it interesting that these split systems are just getting popular here in the US... they've been around for 40+ years in Asia. Fujitsu is a good brand.. another couple of brands are Daikin (don't know if they sell here) and Panasonic.

Do you have enough clearance with the propane tanks in front of the compressor? or did I miss your tray somehow slides out to clear the tanks?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by LJY

Thanks, btw, great work..
I find it interesting that these split systems are just getting popular here in the US... they've been around for 40+ years in Asia. Fujitsu is a good brand.. another couple of brands are Daikin (don't know if they sell here) and Panasonic.

Do you have enough clearance with the propane tanks in front of the compressor? or did I miss your tray somehow slides out to clear the tanks?

Yes, Panasonic is the old Sanyo line and Daikin are good too. Trouble is availability in 120V. Even there smallest units are 208/230V. Fujitsu has the nicest selection of 120V units in my opinion.

There is clearance between the tanks and condenser, but not much. When the A/C is in use we simply remove the propane tank cover. The discharge air finds its way around the tanks just fine. Haven’t had any issues. Ideally the condenser would be out front requiring no adjustments at the front of trailer to operate, but it would be subject to more damage in that position.

[h2owmn]

What an interesting idea! My son put two in his previous small house and loved the result. Looks like the cost is significantly less than the offered ac. I wonder if I could get this added to my build rather than the standard. The location alone is significant. How much does that weigh?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by h2owmn

What an interesting idea! My son put two in his previous small house and loved the result. Looks like the cost is significantly less than the offered ac. I wonder if I could get this added to my build rather than the standard. The location alone is significant. How much does that weigh?

Barbara, short answer is no. Escape will not install a mini-split AC. It's a very custom install, as Dave has well documented. He's the first to attempt it as far as I know, but others will surely follow. There are so many advantages, but the biggest one is the elimination of noise. As for cost, I don't see a significant difference between the factory roof mounted one and the mini-split, especially when you take into account installation costs and the modifications required to the cabinetry. The only drawbacks I see are losing the storage box, and needing the expertise to do the install.

[h2owmn]

Thanks!

For me, location would be big. Both my kids are tall and will inherit the escape...it would be nice to have no ceiling intrusion in the middle of the aisle.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by h2owmn

Thanks!

For me, location would be big. Both my kids are tall and will inherit the escape...it would be nice to have no ceiling intrusion in the middle of the aisle.

I'd let the kids worry about it.

[h2owmn]

Great advice. Sold. The 5'4" mom vs the 6'4" son and 5'10 daughter. Seniority wins.)

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I'd let the kids worry about it.

I'm with you on that one Glenn. Gaining 2" of headroom where the AC used to be is not a compelling reason to do the retrofit in my opinion. Noise certainly is.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by h2owmn

What an interesting idea! My son put two in his previous small house and loved the result. Looks like the cost is significantly less than the offered ac. I wonder if I could get this added to my build rather than the standard. The location alone is significant. How much does that weigh?

It's a custom install that ETI is not entertaining at this point in time. All in the cost for the mini-split would be much more. The stock Dometic overhead A/C is $1,100 CAD installed (so about $855 USD at today's exchange rate). My tally was about $1,400 USD and a significant amount of my own labor. It would vary depending on the model trailer that one chose to retrofit but here is an explanation of my costs:
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...tml#post212152

The weight of the components is 64 lbs for the outdoor condenser and 16 lbs for the indoor evaporator. The combination is actually lighter than the Dometic overhead which comes in around 100#.

Originally Posted by h2owmn

Great advice. Sold. The 5'4" mom vs the 6'4" son and 5'10 daughter. Seniority wins.)

Given the interior height of the 17 at 6'-2" your son will be crouching a bit anyway, irrespective of the A/C. You and your daughter are fine no matter what you decide. I agree to get the stock A/C and then only consider a retrofit later if needed.

[trlqwen]

Front box was available October or November 2010. Escape history.

[rubicon327]

Found this mini-split made by ClimateRight that has a DIY quick connect of the refrigerant lines. Neat concept. Too bad the condenser is too big and heavy to be practical to move around and only bring out when you want A/C.

Would be nice if they made one of these around 5,000 BTUH.

https://climateright.com/mini-split-...er-heater.html

[Ron in BC]

Nice unit, and yes, it would be more appealing for some folks if a smaller unit was available.

Those quick connects are handy. I used them on a NovaKool fridge/freezer in a boat.

Like their subtle suggestion that at least one of the folks doing the install should be handy.

Ron

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Nice unit, and yes, it would be more appealing for some folks if a smaller unit was available.

Those quick connects are handy. I used them on a NovaKool fridge/freezer in a boat.

Found this unit too which is similar in concept to the ForestAir that was posted earlier in this thread and allows for disconnection of the lines. Too bad it has many reviews indicating unit malfunctions and “E7” codes for overheating. I’m also not sure i’d trust that it is 10,000 BTU given its small size and inefficiency. I’d want to see numbers from a testing standard like AHRI.

http://www.amazon.com/App-Enabled-Ro.../dp/B071ZR3MMQ

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I did happen to find one rooftop RV unit with DC inverter compressor technology, but not sure of its availability in the US. It is the Aislu MSD. This could be huge as a direct replacement solution for the loud constant speed overhead units that are prevalent. Shows a 9000 BTUH size that is perfect for smaller trailers.

Absolutely loving our mini-split but realize that it is not possible as a mainstream retrofit solution due to cost, specialized skill to install, space constraints and risk with no warranty. I have continued to wonder why inverter technology has not made it's way into standard rooftop RV air conditioners. Kept up the search and lo and behold Dometic introduced the Harrier model (10,500 BTUH) in 2016 with an inverter compressor and variable fan speed. Reviews I have seen indicate that the unit is much quieter than standard units. Why is this not made in a 120V/60Hz version and available in the US/Canada?

https://www.dometic.com/en-gb/kr/pro...erter-_-152020

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

... Kept up the search and lo and behold Dometic introduced the Harrier model (10,500 BTUH) in 2016 with an inverter compressor and variable fan speed. Reviews I have seen indicate that the unit is much quieter than standard units. Why is this not made in a 120V/60Hz version and available in the US/Canada?

Likely because RV manufacturers are not willing to pay the difference, and they're not willing to pay because buyers won't pay the extra when they're choosing an RV on the dealer's lot (with the air conditioner not running).

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Likely because RV manufacturers are not willing to pay the difference, and they're not willing to pay because buyers won't pay the extra when they're choosing an RV on the dealer's lot (with the air conditioner not running).

Frustrating. The incremental cost can’t be that much considering the added value of being able to talk and sleep in your trailer undisturbed by the A/C.

People won’t pay extra for these features and technology? I sense that many on this forum alone would jump at the chance for a quieter A/C if there was an available option.

-Heat pump design (provides heating and cooling)
-Inverter Compressor and variable speed fan (separate evaporator and condenser fans)
-Low start-up current (will run off 2000W generators)
-Quiet operation
-Sleep Mode reduces compressor and fan speed to minimise noise and vibration levels
-Remote controlled oscillating vents
-Remote controlled LED ambient lighting

[rbryan4]

I'd pony up the cash for a factory installed mini-split in a heartbeat Dave. I suspect many others would as well.