Custom Air Conditioning Retrofit

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by padlin

I thought that's what the 1Up was for, 2 bikes and an air conditioner.

What, and have a back end that looks like it is from Alaska?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

The tough part is figuring out a place for the condensing unit. Not to keen on having it hanging off the back.

Although the aesthetics would take work, right in front of the nose is available. Since the front of the 5.0TA is almost straight across, an object can be mounted in the middle and not hit anything. This location has been used for generators (or this) and bikes on larger fifth-wheels. Not suggesting, just observing...

Even the back isn't so bad. Shift the spare to one side, set the outdoor unit just above the bumper beside it, maybe put a nerf bar around it, and make a drop-on travel cover (or use a propane tank cover as Dave plans). I like the idea of something that looks like a couple of propane tanks back there - it might discourage traffic from following too closely.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Even the back isn't so bad. Shift the spare to one side, set the outdoor unit just above the bumper beside it, maybe put a nerf bar around it, and make a drop-on travel cover (or use a propane tank cover as Dave plans). I like the idea of something that looks like a couple of propane tanks back there - it might discourage traffic from following too closely.

Don't get me wrong, the aesthetics of this setup on the 19 might not be for everyone. It looks like the outdoor unit will go on the front of the tongue with propane behind. The propane cover on the condenser won't work because I realized the dual 30 lb cover only gets taller. I need a little more width. Plus I'm not too keen on two propane covers stacked next to each other. I found a canvas cover online made for a mini-split condenser, but it looks cheap. Might be a custom cover in the works that will protect it during travel and break up the front a bit. I don't think looking like I have 4 propane tanks up front is a good look!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Don't get me wrong, the aesthetics of this setup on the 19 might not be for everyone.

I don't have any issue with the plans for the 19'... but a box on the front of a 5.0TA calls for some attention to appearance, since it has no corresponding tongue area and the unit would be out in front of the loft. Besides, on any model - it's your trailer!

Originally Posted by rubicon327

It looks like the outdoor unit will go on the front of the tongue with propane behind. The propane cover on the condenser won't work because I realized the dual 30 lb cover only gets taller. I need a little more width..

Right - the common size of 20-pound and 30-pound tanks is the same other than height, so the same holders work for both. The overall length and width of the condenser unit appear to match the propane tanks, so I assume that the fit issue is that the propane covers are too rounded on the corners.

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Plus I'm not too keen on two propane covers stacked next to each other. I found a canvas cover online made for a mini-split condenser, but it looks cheap. Might be a custom cover in the works that will protect it during travel and break up the front a bit. I don't think looking like I have 4 propane tanks up front is a good look!

The look of four propane tanks might be a conversation starter, but if you want to avoid that the slickest solution would be a custom box covering both the tanks and the air conditioning unit. A single box would be nearly square, but slightly wider in back; it can be wider at the back than required for the tanks, if you want some bonus cargo space. It would need to have a front part which lifts off, or side and front doors which open.

Custom boxes are certainly possible, although you need some skills...
Tongue box options

By the way, assuming that the tongue of the 19' is at least as long as the tongue of the 17', baglo's illustration of dimensions suggests that the condenser unit could sit a few inches further back than the stock propane location (since the space from tanks in stock location to body is greater than the tanks need in their new location).

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The overall length and width of the condenser unit appear to match the propane tanks, so I assume that the fit issue is that the propane covers are too rounded on the corners.

Exactly.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Although the aesthetics would take work, right in front of the nose is available. Since the front of the 5.0TA is almost straight across, an object can be mounted in the middle and not hit anything. This location has been used for generators (or this) and bikes on larger fifth-wheels. Not suggesting, just observing...

Even the back isn't so bad. Shift the spare to one side, set the outdoor unit just above the bumper beside it, maybe put a nerf bar around it, and make a drop-on travel cover (or use a propane tank cover as Dave plans). I like the idea of something that looks like a couple of propane tanks back there - it might discourage traffic from following too closely.

I don't think the look of the condenser permanently mounted on the front would be so nice. Besides, I am considering mounting a receiver to the pin box for the bike rack. This would free up the rear for a cargo box if desired. All this is just conjecture at this point, as none of these ideas will actually take shape until after I get the trailer, and start my work on it, and end up seeing what my needs will be. I have a feeling I will end up with more than enough space without an additional box.

Besides, I don't know how much I will actually use A/C as past camping has proven that I rarely need it, but who knows what the future brings.......

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Don't get me wrong, the aesthetics of this setup on the 19 might not be for everyone. It looks like the outdoor unit will go on the front of the tongue with propane behind. The propane cover on the condenser won't work because I realized the dual 30 lb cover only gets taller. I need a little more width. Plus I'm not too keen on two propane covers stacked next to each other. I found a canvas cover online made for a mini-split condenser, but it looks cheap. Might be a custom cover in the works that will protect it during travel and break up the front a bit. I don't think looking like I have 4 propane tanks up front is a good look!

I too was thinking like Brian said, that incorporating everything on the tongue into one custom box would be the cleanest look.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Exactly.

Interesting project and one that I understand. My Scamp came with a new, still in the box a/c which I never installed and sold. I've had several RV's and never liked the roof top units. For my Escape I just use a window mounted portable unit for the few times I want a/c.

I like the split unit and I think your interior mounting position is perfect.

My old Scamp had the sewer hose mounted horizontally across the front. I'm not suggesting that you do that but is there any chance that stacking the units would work? Some sort of frame work or a box that would hold the tanks above the a/c or even the opposite with doors on the front for access to the tanks?

Ron

[tractors1]

You might contact Orbital Machine Works. The make a couple of tank enclosure/stands that designed to mount a generator on top. I'm sure they'd be able to adapt their top to hold a light item. Nice & clean looking, too.

Universal Over-tank Utility Platform

[Brian B-P]

It could go over the propane tanks in their stock location, but I wouldn't want everything so far forward. Dave plans to move the batteries, but if they were left where they are the outdoor unit could go over them, instead of over the propane. For battery access, the air conditioning unit would then need to be movable, or the batteries would need to be mounted on a slide. The propane tank housing from Orbital might make more sense to me with tanks further back.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by tractors1

You might contact Orbital Machine Works. The make a couple of tank enclosure/stands that designed to mount a generator on top. I'm sure they'd be able to adapt their top to hold a light item. Nice & clean looking, too.

Universal Over-tank Utility Platform

I was actually looking at this enclosure as I came across this company when doing some mods on my fathers Scamp. Not sure how it would help though because with the condenser out front I would lose access to the tanks as they can no longer be lifted up and off. Mounting the condenser on the top shelf would create new issues like worse aesthetics with the unit up high and it may be more difficult to support properly. I appreciate all the thoughts and brainstorming because even ruling stuff out is helping.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I was actually looking at this enclosure as I came across this company when doing some mods on my fathers Scamp. Not sure how it would help though because with the condenser out front I would lose access to the tanks as they can no longer be lifted up and off.

Since the access to the tanks with this cabinet is through a door on the front, I agree that it would not work when up against the jack; that's why I suggested that it could work with tanks further back. I assume that a Casita (for which this box is designed) has the tanks further back than an Escape.

If stacking the air conditioning outdoor unit on top of something, the batteries are lower than the propane tanks; however, if mounting batteries on a slide for access, they would need to sit above the tongue frame rails rather than down between them.

If the air conditioning outdoor unit had to be stacked on top of the propane tanks, a different housing or frame which allowed the tanks to come out to the side would work... but I still wouldn't want all three major components (batteries, propane, A/C outdoor unit) on the tongue, and certainly not two of them perched at the very front.

[Jubal]

Considering that the 2010 19 trailer most probably has the 3" box frame that has failed and is modified by the mend plates, recommend caution when increasing weight on the frame tongue.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

...but I still wouldn't want all three major components (batteries, propane, A/C outdoor unit) on the tongue, and certainly not two of them perched at the very front.

Do you have any suggestions for battery relocation? Dual propane tanks will be back against the front of the trailer with condensing unit out in front against the jack where the propane is now. This is the best for unobstructed access to the tanks and best clearance for airflow on the condenser. I'm not too keen on one of my original ideas to also have the dual 6V batteries upfront and turned to run lengthwise with the A-frame from near the trailer corner towards the front with one on each side. Would require welding on supports and would be a lot of weight at a potential (known?) weak point where the "A" meets the box under the body. The trailer does have the 3" frame and it has been welded to meet the recall guidelines. I could relocate to under the front dinette seats (one on each side?) in vented boxes or go to AGM's. I would like to stay with the Interstate GC2's because they are new, but could be convinced otherwise with a good argument. I could also make one work on each side of the rear bumper under the tail lights similar to the setup I've seen on a 17. Thoughts?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Looks very nice- I bet those who need A/C are thinking this could be a really good thing. What tow vehicle do you have?

Rossue sorry I missed this. Trailer is towed by 2005 or 2007 Toyota 4Runner, depending on if it is being towed by myself or my father. Both SR5 V6 models.

[jamman]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Do you have any suggestions for battery relocation? Dual propane tanks will be back against the front of the trailer with condensing unit out in front against the jack where the propane is now. This is the best for unobstructed access to the tanks and best clearance for airflow on the condenser. I'm not too keen on one of my original ideas to also have the dual 6V batteries upfront and turned to run lengthwise with the A-frame from near the trailer corner towards the front with one on each side. Would require welding on supports and would be a lot of weight at a potential (known?) weak point where the "A" meets the box under the body. The trailer does have the 3" frame and it has been welded to meet the recall guidelines. I could relocate to under the front dinette seats (one on each side?) in vented boxes or go to AGM's. I would like to stay with the Interstate GC2's because they are new, but could be convinced otherwise with a good argument. I could also make one work on each side of the rear bumper under the tail lights similar to the setup I've seen on a 17. Thoughts?

Depending on your front table seating requirements you could mount the batteries under the table, anywhere from a "skinny" to "normal" U-shaped dinette.

If you want to unload the tongue a bit you could put them under the queen bed - centered if you like.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Do you have any suggestions for battery relocation? Dual propane tanks will be back against the front of the trailer with condensing unit out in front against the jack where the propane is now. This is the best for unobstructed access to the tanks and best clearance for airflow on the condenser. I'm not too keen on one of my original ideas to also have the dual 6V batteries upfront and turned to run lengthwise with the A-frame from near the trailer corner towards the front with one on each side. Would require welding on supports and would be a lot of weight at a potential (known?) weak point where the "A" meets the box under the body.

While I wouldn't want this much weight up front, the flanking-the-tongue location is sort of packaged like putting them in the ends of the Escape front box (which I realize this trailer doesn't have), so if the structure is done properly it would work.

In the out-of-the-box thinking category, you could also put the batteries side-by-side in the middle against the body as compactly as possible (which would mean 11" long dimension across trailer and twice width - 15" total - front-to-back), perhaps in something like a side-by-side box from Century, then flank them with propane tanks in single-tank holders sitting on each frame rail.
Using what was readily available (Google Drawings) and with only rough sizes (definitely not to scale), here's a layout following this idea - note that the batteries sit down between the frame rails so a small removable storage box (for light stuff!) could sit over the batteries, as long as it doesn't block airflow for the condenser. All dimensions would be need to determined and checked against the available space - the stuff might not fit this way.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I could relocate to under the front dinette seats (one on each side?) in vented boxes or go to AGM's. I would like to stay with the Interstate GC2's because they are new, but could be convinced otherwise with a good argument. I could also make one work on each side of the rear bumper under the tail lights similar to the setup I've seen on a 17. Thoughts?

I wouldn't want them on the back. I realize that this can be done, but

1. balancing a trailer by putting big masses on each end is fundamentally bad for stability (compared to keeping masses toward the middle), and
2. the air conditioning outdoor unit is not nearly as heavy as the batteries, so putting it up front and the batteries out back is a substantial rearward shift in total.

Note that the 17' is differently proportioned than the rest of the Escape models, with a relatively long front body compared to rear body, so batteries at the rear bumper work better with it than with other models.

The practical closer-to-the-axles locations are under the seating or beds at the ends of the trailer. With a permanent bed at the back access would be better under the (front) dinette, and although I haven't run the numbers the tongue weight result seems likely to be better there.

For one-battery-on-each-side to work at the front, there would need to be room under the street side dinette seat for one battery... but that's where the black tank is. Is there room remaining for a battery there? My assumption has been that both would need to be on the curb side.

With any inside-the-body location, an access hatch in the outer wall and a slide tray would make access much easier, and would allow complete sealing from the inside. Slides are very commonly used for batteries in larger trailers, and even in Casitas (image from a FiberglassRV discussion below). The challenge is that these batteries are tall, and setting them on a slide makes them taller, so they might not fit under the seat, and might not fit within the height of the opening of an available external hatch.


I'm guessing that no one wants to reduce battery capacity, having become accustomed to 230+ amp-hours of capacity from a dual-battery setup, so the plan would be accommodate this size of battery set.

I would prefer AGM to reduce maintenance, but they won't save any space or weight, so if sufficient access can be maintained then it makes sense to me to plan for flooded batteries - you can still use AGM later in the same space.

[padlin]

Where's the converter in a 19? do you have an inverter? Just wondering if there might be some electrical limitation to where you put the batteries.

[cpaharley2008]

The converter is street side dinette next to black tank in the 19'. There may be room for a single battery behind the converter with another one on the curb side dinette. There is room for cables behind the middle divider panel under the table.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

While I wouldn't want this much weight up front, the flanking-the-tongue location is sort of packaged like putting them in the ends of the Escape front box (which I realize this trailer doesn't have), so if the structure is done properly it would work.

In the out-of-the-box thinking category, you could also put the batteries side-by-side in the middle against the body as compactly as possible (which would mean 11" long dimension across trailer and twice width - 15" total - front-to-back), perhaps in something like a side-by-side box from Century, then flank them with propane tanks in single-tank holders sitting on each frame rail.

We are working with an experienced welder who has built a custom chassis for a street rod or two so we can accommodate and reinforce as required. Just for perspective our baseline trailer numbers are 3580 lbs (tanks empty, but otherwise ready to camp) with 360 tongue weight. Good proportions, but it looks like we need to trim a little fat.

Thanks for the sketch! As I'm sure you've gathered this is exactly what I'm thinking except for the propane staying together and centered against the front wall and the batteries flanking the sides. The reasoning being that single propane holders appear tough to come by and I figure it will be easier to extend wiring than to deal with the placement of the dual regulator and associated rework of the piping. It also allows the best access to the batteries without them "caged in" by the condenser and tanks.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

For one-battery-on-each-side to work at the front, there would need to be room under the street side dinette seat for one battery... but that's where the black tank is. Is there room remaining for a battery there? My assumption has been that both would need to be on the curb side.

I haven't measured, but there is probably room for one. We don't have an inverter or surge suppression (use external) and the black tank only protrudes partially into the front dinette underseat area from the rear, but with the batteries essentially shifted to the other side of the front wall I don't think my impact on tongue weight would be significant for all the work. I rather reinforce and leave them outside.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The converter is street side dinette next to black tank in the 19'. There may be room for a single battery behind the converter with another one on the curb side dinette. There is room for cables behind the middle divider panel under the table.

This is exactly what I was hoping could be done if I had to go this way. One battery on each side with wiring behind the divider panel.