Electric Hot Water Heater Switch

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I would check into that, as I can't see them running 10g wire to the water heater. When I spliced a switch into mine and it was 14g. Others have too. You really should only have a 15A breaker there, I wonder if it was just an install error?

I'll be sure to ask when we're up there in two weeks!

[Brian B-P]

If the water heater actually has a 30 amp supply circuit, then yes the switch should be 30 amp. But...

The water heater circuit clearly only needs to have 15 amp capacity, as Carl explained. The SW6DEL installation manual says to check the placard on the appliance, but the example which they include clearly shows 12 amp maximum current (as Carl said, it is a 1440 watt heater) and specifies 14 ga wire if any AC wiring needs replacement (which is the standard for 15 amp circuits).

As Jim explained, if the wiring is 14 gauge (as it should be - heavier is pointless) the breaker must not be rated at 30 amps; if a 30 amp breaker is supplying a 14 gauge cable, the breaker needs to be removed and replaced with one rated at no more than 15 amps for safety. Since it must be at least 15 amps due to the heater size, there's only one right size.

Air conditioners need a lot of current to start, which is why the circuit has 20 amp capacity, and the corresponding 12 gauge wire.

If I have anything wrong, I hope one of the qualified electrical professionals on the forum will provide a correction.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The air conditioner circuit could reasonably be 20 amp; if so, it should have 12 gauge wire.

That it is.

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

I'll be sure to ask when we're up there in two weeks!

Can you check to see what the wire size going to the heater?

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[tdf-texas]

The internal wiring of the SW6DE (and SW6DEL) is 14 gauge - I checked. It also states in the installation manual to use 14 gauge wire. Therefore, a 15 amp circuit breaker would be the max size that should be used.

If you have a larger than 15 amp breaker feeding the hot water heater, you need to get it changed. A short could burn up the wiring before the breaker would trip.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I would check into that, as I can't see them running 10g wire to the water heater. When I spliced a switch into mine and it was 14g. Others have too. You really should only have a 15A breaker there, I wonder if it was just an install error?

I agree with Jim, Tom and Brian. If the wiring to your water heater is 14 gauge and it is controlled by a 30 amp breaker, the wire could melt and start a fire before the breaker tripped. It is a potentially dangerous situation. I would recommend you call Reace ASAP and ask him why you have a 30 amp breaker on your water heater. Something seems wrong here.

[tdf-texas]

How much trouble am I looking at to run a wire from the monitor panel to the SW6DE? From looking at the Friday pictures, it seems that I would have to pull the refrigerator and remove the back panels in all the bottom cabinets to be able to route the wire.

I've turned in my build sheet already and I don't think I could stand to hear another NO by asking Escape to run it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Not in my 17B. Main at top is 30, and so is "HW ELEC" at bottom.

The pictured power centre is the one which I believe is in all recent Escapes: the WFCO 8955. The installation manual for the 8955 specifies a 30-amp main breaker, and branch circuit breakers of no more than 20 amps (each). There certainly should not be a 30 amp breaker other than the main breaker in that panel, regardless of the wire size.

In addition to the listed "acceptable" breakers, there are also other brands which interchange with those types, so my guess is that it would be very easy to get a suitable replacement for the unsuitably rated 30 amp breaker. If Escape can't do it while you wait when you're there, it's a do-it-yourself level fix.

Also, you could replace that wide breaker with one (like the breakers above it) that puts two independent breakers in the same space... in case you want to add a circuit for anything.

[rbryan4]

Not a qualified electrician by any means, but I agree -- that 30 amp breaker in the photo above labeled HW ELEC looks like a mistake. Make sure you check into it.

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[float5]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

I'll be sure to ask when we're up there in two weeks!

Yes, could be a mislabeling. Here is ours.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by float5

Yes, could be a mislabeling. Here is ours.

Thanks for the photo Cathy. I don't think it's mislabeled now that I see yours. Looks like the 17B in the photo above doesn't have the transfer switch like yours, so, 5 circuit breakers instead of 6. Looks like the bottom breaker should be a 15 amp or split breaker instead of a single 30?

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[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Thanks for the photo Cathy. I don't think it's mislabeled now that I see yours. Looks like the 17B in the photo above doesn't have the transfer switch like yours, so, 5 circuit breakers instead of 6. Looks like the bottom breaker should be a 15 amp or split breaker instead of a single 30?

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Well, I don't know about that on ours. It is a transfer switch for all outlets.
But it would be awfully odd for them to have a 30 for the water heater. Doubt they do.

Also, when I looked at ours, although you probably cannot tell, seemed as if we have one label missing on the right. Which means that some others may be in the wrong place. And maybe theirs is wrong.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by float5

Well, I don't know about that on ours. It is a transfer switch for all outlets.
But it would be awfully odd for them to have a 30 for the water heater.

Also, when I looked at ours, although you probably cannot tell, seemed as if we have one label missing on the right. Which means that some others may be in the wrong place. And maybe theirs is wrong.

I don't think any labels are missing on the right. The label there doesn't line up directly adjacent to the fuses, like the labels for the breakers do, but is used as a numbered reference.


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[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I don't think any labels are missing on the right. The label there doesn't line up directly adjacent to the fuses, like the labels for the breakers do, but is used as a numbered reference.


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Oh, good. I will have to look again when in the trailer.

[sclifrickson]

Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?

[tdf-texas]

Time for white out.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?

Well, that would explain it, but then, which circuit feeds the water heater? Gotta be one of the 15s?

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[float5]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?

Yep, I'd say you are missing a label like we have.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

Yes, could be a mislabeling. Here is ours.

Okay, the idea is not that a breaker has the wrong amp rating label on it, but that the circuit description label is incorrect. Ah...

Cathy, yours is the wrong size of breaker, too, unless your panel has different specs from those published for the 8955. Although the transfer switch may be able to handle 30 amps, and the wiring from panel to transfer switch may be appropriate for 30 amp (it looks like it is in the photo Cathy provided in a previous discussion), the panel is not supposed to have this size of branch circuit breaker in it. Sorry I didn't catch the rating issue when this photo of the WFCO panel was previously posted.

Other than the questionable size of the 30-amp breaker, Cathy's panel is appropriately configured.

• The main breaker brings in shore power,
• one branch circuit distributes power to the transfer switch (the switch provides power to the outlets from either this circuit or the inverter, through a second panel), and
• the rest of the branch circuits distribute power to the stuff which cannot be operated from inverter power:
  • converter (because that would be pointless),
  • refrigerator (because you use propane instead),
  • water heater because it would be too much power and you use propane instead, and
  • air conditioner (which needs more power than the inverter can provide).

So the "transfer switch" circuit is only supplying the outlets connected to circuits which come from a small second distribution panel (or "load center"). If the load of the extra distribution panel (subject of a previous discussion) is more than can be supported by a 20-amp circuit, it is not supposed to be handled by this WFCO panel (according to the installation manual downloaded from WFCO).

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Thanks for the photo Cathy. I don't think it's mislabeled now that I see yours. Looks like the 17B in the photo above doesn't have the transfer switch like yours. Looks like the bottom breaker should be a 15 amp or split breaker instead of a single 30?

Yes, whether the device in one slot handles one circuit or is split into two, each breaker must not exceed 20 amps (according to the installation manual) and the water heater should have a 15-amp breaker (which Cathy's panel has).


It looks like wide 30-amp breakers are used in the bottom position, to supply the transfer switch; this is probably the intended design, with suitable gauge of wire used. If this 30-amp breaker was used even for other configurations - perhaps whenever only 5 breakers (main plus four branches) are needed - there could be a lot of these and some (such as any supplying a water heater) would likely inappropriately rated for the wiring.

If we're really lucky, perhaps the WFCO documentation is wrong, and a 30-amp breaker really is okay in their panel if it is the wide type, and the 20-amp limit only applied to the half-width breakers (although the main breaker is a half-width 30 amp ) If that's the case - and it's only wishful thinking - and Scott's panel is mislabelled, then we would be down to no wiring issues.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?

If that's what it is, then...

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Time for white out.

I agree - but I would make a new stick-on label to cover the whole mess.

It's also time to flip each breaker and see what goes off... remembering to do this with the inverter turned off so it doesn't confuse things. The water heater is hard to check this way, but if only one breaker doesn't supply anything else...

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Okay, the idea is not that a breaker has the wrong amp rating label on it, but that the circuit description label is incorrect. Ah...

Cathy, yours is the wrong size of breaker, too, unless your panel has different specs from those published for the 8955. Although the transfer switch may be able to handle 30 amps, and the wiring from panel to transfer switch may be appropriate for 30 amp (it looks like it is in the photo Cathy provided in a previous discussion), the panel is not supposed to have this size of branch circuit breaker in it. Sorry I didn't catch the rating issue when this photo of the WFCO panel was previously posted.

Other than the questionable size of the 30-amp breaker, Cathy's panel is appropriately configured.

• The main breaker brings in shore power,
• one branch circuit distributes power to the transfer switch (the switch provides power to the outlets from either this circuit or the inverter, through a second panel), and
• the rest of the branch circuits distribute power to the stuff which cannot be operated from inverter power:
  • converter (because that would be pointless),
  • refrigerator (because you use propane instead),
  • water heater because it would be too much power and you use propane instead, and
  • air conditioner (which needs more power than the inverter can provide).

So the "transfer switch" circuit is only supplying the outlets connected to circuits which come from a small second distribution panel (or "load center"). If the load of the extra distribution panel (subject of a previous discussion) is more than can be supported by a 20-amp circuit, it is not supposed to be handled by this WFCO panel (according to the installation manual downloaded from WFCO).


Yes, whether the device in one slot handles one circuit or is split into two, each breaker must not exceed 20 amps (according to the installation manual) and the water heater should have a 15-amp breaker (which Cathy's panel has).


It looks like wide 30-amp breakers are used in the bottom position, to supply the transfer switch; this is probably the intended design, with suitable gauge of wire used. If this 30-amp breaker was used even for other configurations - perhaps whenever only 5 breakers (main plus four branches) are needed - there could be a lot of these and some (such as any supplying a water heater) would likely inappropriately rated for the wiring.

If we're really lucky, perhaps the WFCO documentation is wrong, and a 30-amp breaker really is okay in their panel if it is the wide type, and the 20-amp limit only applied to the half-width breakers (although the main breaker is a half-width 30 amp ) If that's the case - and it's only wishful thinking - and Scott's panel is mislabelled, then we would be down to no wiring issues.

The electrical that we are looking at may be misleading, as with the 30-amp on the label. There could be two 15-amps in the back related to the transfer switch but I really wouldn't know any more what is back there. I am sure that ETI can easily clear that up, or even someone here who also has the transfer switch.